SimpliPhi warranty

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raysun
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SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

I just "attended" a Zoom webinar put on by SimpliPhi. The presenter made an interesting side comment. While I cannot verify the truth of this as official corporate policy, I found it interesting. To wit:
"SimpliPhi's 10 year warranty applies to batteries cycled to 0% state of charge. We recommend restricting depth of discharge to 20% SoC because we want you to get 20 years of service from them."
Hard to prove this one way or another as nobody has had the current Phi batteries in operation for 10 years or more, but its at least mildly reassuring someone from the company would make such a statement.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

raysun wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:43 pm I just "attended" a Zoom webinar put on by SimpliPhi. The presenter made an interesting side comment. While I cannot verify the truth of this as official corporate policy, I found it interesting. To wit:
"SimpliPhi's 10 year warranty applies to batteries cycled to 0% state of charge. We recommend restricting depth of discharge to 20% SoC because we want you to get 20 years of service from them."
Hard to prove this one way or another as nobody has had the current Phi batteries in operation for 10 years or more, but its at least mildly reassuring someone from the company would make such a statement.
if we discharge them down to 40% do we get 30years? any of us will last that long?
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

if we discharge them down to 40% do we get 30years? any of us will last that long?
Back when I was experimenting with crappy Chinese cells and DIY LiFePo4, I connected with a researcher who was working in the field. He said the current LiFePo4 design (carbon anodes, organic electrolyte) if charged/discharged between 70% and 30%, would last 1000 years.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:28 pm
if we discharge them down to 40% do we get 30years? any of us will last that long?
Back when I was experimenting with crappy Chinese cells and DIY LiFePo4, I connected with a researcher who was working in the field. He said the current LiFePo4 design (carbon anodes, organic electrolyte) if charged/discharged between 70% and 30%, would last 1000 years.
Yeah, right. I appreciate the exaggeration and the confidence it exudes but I'll await a couple of hundred years to pass and then re evaluated it. (wink)

But the above is all about the amount of discharge. What about a threshold to the amount of recharge? Ray, I expect you to bring up a previous communication that PHIs upper 56.4 limit is already very conservative - that it can go much higher. But my point is that if you limit both the bottom AND the top? For my purposes with the long summer days I drop the charged voltage to 54.6/0.1hr and have no problems going two days if I had to with nothing coming in the 2nd day (that doesn't happen ever.) But in the winter on generator I go to 56.4/0.1 and can make it 2 days (and it is entirely possible to have almost no solar the 2nd day and rarely hit the mid 30's, SOC equivalent).

Either way I don't change the float summer to winter. And having the charge end at 54.6 in the summer or having the voltage settle back toward float of 53.6, the Phis are still, practically, fully charged. "Hard to prove this one way or another as nobody has had the current Phi batteries in operation for 10 years or more..." Yup, absolutely.

As an refresher for why I added the 4th PHI: it is because I can get by fine with 3 blocks. But if one failed, running on 2 blocks would suck any time of the year. So since they don't have the memory issue, with 4 blocks I can have 1 fail and run fine on 3 and it's all the easier if that doesn't happen. So the cost of the 4th PHI over the next thousand years is pretty cheap. I certainly don't have money to spend $2.5k for an un needed 4th block but since I was taking the leap, this is the logic I used to set things up. Time will tell. I'm not sure of anyone else "over batteryed", except maybe Eagle-One, and he would argue the point. Maybe you, 2nd, Ray. Not too many people admit they over-batteried with expensive blocks.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

I'd say my 6 block Phi is "over batteried" by most measures. I rarely see below 55% SoC and reach full charge most days. For me, an important metric isn't the amount of charge so much as the rate of charge. I believe, like BBQ, LiFePo4 likes to be cooked low and slow. Since I don't play any games with the level of doneness, I do appreciate the 6 blocks soaking up all the sauce at a modest clip. It's rare to reach more than 15A per block, and much of the time its around 10A. All good.

The 54.6V target is probably somewhere in the 80% SoC range. With all the available capacity, leaving that unused "headroom" is bound to increase the cycle life of the battery. In winter, do you charge to higher capacity because you use more, or because since the generator is running, might as well fill the bucket?

I still see no reason to hold the battery at a high Float voltage. The Phi tech poo-poo'd my tactic, but I don't need the battery held at 100% SoC, and am happy to shed a few AH from the container. Makes the same sense to me as taking a pull off one's daft beer at the bar before carrying the pint to the table.
Last edited by raysun on Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:30 pm I believe, like BBQ
I'm in the mood for some smoked fleisch now. Too much of this seasonal stuff in a week.
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78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

I was checking this battery testing lab: https://batterytestcentre.com.au/ and the PHIs didn't do well in their tests.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

EA6LE-ONE wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:33 pm I was checking this battery testing lab: https://batterytestcentre.com.au/ and the PHIs didn't do well in their tests.
I can't see where Phi was tested. Is there another link?

Nevermind, it's a very old test of a long retired battery model. (SimpliPhi 3.4) Its was tested using out-of-spec discharge parameters that (inadvertently) caused the battery to be discharged past 100% DoD.

I've always wondered about BTC's test methodology. I'm not sure how they control the ambient temperature aspect, using outside air and 3 cycles per day. High and Low ranges Winter/Summer is OK, but its a bit hard to correlate unless they are collecting the actuals for each cycle.
Also, most LiFePo4 claim to handle C2 charge/discharge, and BTC is using a more conservative C4 rate, but I don't know any home user who works their battery that hard. I certainly dont.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:30 pmIn winter, do you charge to higher capacity because you use more, or because since the generator is running, might as well fill the bucket?
The answer would be Yes to the latter. In the summer we use more because I'm like a Russian with Vodka but regarding power. In the winter on generator I pay in gas for virtually every watt. Also in winter since the days are short and any available solar watt ends early I fill the PHIs full when I can, usually starting at 6-7pm and running until 9:30 or 10. for the day. If a problem we can greatly minimize more than we do. Normally. The priority is the 2 deep freezers and the inside fridge.

For those wondering, we have a backup to the backup. But if the inverter failed it would suck to run the backup to the backup which is a 12kw welder generator feeding trivial house loads. That welder/gen sucks fuel like my pickup going down the highway pulling a load of hay. But I time its exercise with a project in the shop 'cause its inside and the exhaust out and it will heat the shop in an hour to where I don't have to work with gloves.

I don't have to deal with ash unless dumping the firewood bucket (wink, this time of year).
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by JRHill »

This is probably a different thread. IF OFF GRID and managing your inputs, how do You manage summer to winter?
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:19 pm This is probably a different thread. IF OFF GRID and managing your inputs, how do You manage summer to winter?
Simple. Moved to 20° N Latitude. Problem solved.
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by JRHill »

My Catahoula dogs like their heat more than yours. I win (in the cold).
Vday 2022.jpg
raysun
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

Heh!
Ours likes her fuzzy bed (on top of her regular bed). A hui hou!
20221128_115108.jpg
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by JRHill »

Bubba would like an introduction. Doggie match dot com? Sorry, Catahoula dogs only....
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raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi warranty

Post by raysun »

She's a wild thing. Lolo Island Grrrl! 😆
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