Dongle

Mate3 and Mate3s communications devices for Outback Power
Post Reply
Red Fir
Forum Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 01, 2022 6:25 am
My RE system: 6 315 W 48v panels series-parallel at 96 v
Flexmax 80
Radian GS4048
GSLC175-PV-120/240
Mate3
48v -8 Trojan L16's

Dongle

Post by Red Fir »

Looking at the illustration to connect the Mate3 to a network it shows a wifi dongle connecting directly to the Mate3.
Does anyone have such a thing or was that artistic license?
provo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
2 SimpliPhi 3.8-m-24V (150Ah each)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Dongle

Post by provo »

Red Fir wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:02 pm Looking at the illustration to connect the Mate3 to a network it shows a wifi dongle connecting directly to the Mate3.
Does anyone have such a thing or was that artistic license?
It's an ethernet-to-wifi adapter. It allows you to have your Mate remote from your router without having to run an ethernet cable. This is the one I have, but there are many versions:

GWU637 Datasheet.pdf
(159.68 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
IMG_0053.jpg
TheWaterman
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:22 pm
My RE system: FP1 fx3048 panel

Re: Dongle

Post by TheWaterman »

You can setup a router as an access point also. See router on top in the picture.
Attachments
IMG_20220918_141002.jpg
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Dongle

Post by pss »

I would think using a router as an access point would be the way to go. I do that using both TP-Link routers and Unifi access points. Both are easy to configure, the TP-Link are better for beginners, the Unifi more so for experienced users. Both are very stable and are essentially set and forget devices. If going this route, make certain that use as an access point is available in the software of the device.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

TheWaterman wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:27 pm You can setup a router as an access point also. See router on top in the picture.
I'm a little confused by the terminology. A wifi access point implies an ethernet backhaul to the main router. Is this router actually set up in wireless bridge mode?
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Dongle

Post by pss »

An access point is a piece of hardware and software that is set up to be connected to a router or other access point either by physical connection or by wireless. It then allows either a wired connection to it or a wireless connection(s) from it. It uses the IP address of the router for it's gateway and it does not pass along an IP address. those are either fixed and assigned or received via passthrough from the DHCP server of the router. The access point if being used wirelessly will broadcast its own network name, security password and and bands (2.4, 5 GHz, etc) to devices that are connecting to it.

Some routers have in their software a configuration tab which easily switches them from a router to an access point (like many TP-Link routers). They may cost a little more than just a dedicated access point, but if they are good fast routers with wifi6 on them now they are faster with good coverage. And they serve as a backup router for the future if needed.

In my case, I moved my 2016 TP-Link router into my master bedroom and converted it to an access point to replace my much older router access point. I gained speed this way. Next I installed a new TP-Link router in place of my older one and not have wifi6 too.

I like the flexibility and backup if a router fails.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

So strictly speaking, in the case of the Mate, the "Access Point" (more commonly referred to as a "WiFi Extender" in this role) is using part of the WiFi bandwidth to provide "backhaul" to the main WiFi router, and one of its ethernet ports for Mate connection to the LAN. Unless there are other WiFi clients in its range the extender is not necessarily providing any AP services.
Most all but the cheapest WiFi routers provide this sort of functionality. It's best to check the docs before plunking down $ on a particular model to make sure it does.
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Dongle

Post by pss »

You are confusing intranet and internet. The Mate 3 has 2 ports on the back. One is an intranet port that connects to an Outback hub. Outback devices connect to the hub also. This supplied power to the Mate. with this power, the mate boots up a small linux computer and creates it's own webserver and routher with a DHCP server to the outback devices plugged into the hub. There is no wifi offered. Only the display on the Mate 3 and a webserver to the internet.

To connect the Mate 3 to the internet, the other port not connected to the outback hub is used. The Mate can have an internet IP address set manually or receive one from the DHCP server of the the local router. The Mate does not have any internet wireless ability. If you want to connect the internet of a mate 3 by wifi, you need an access point where it will make a wireless local internet connection and has an ethernet port for the Mate 3 to plug into or you need a direct ethernet to wifi adapter if not using an access point.
Note, I have never used the word "backhaul".
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

You are confusing intranet and internet.
I believe you have misread my response. The Mate needs a LAN connection to the internet router (a LAN generally being defined as an intranet). Nothing in my post speaks to the Outback MODBUS network.
At any rate, we are in what we called in the shop "a violent agreement", and need belabor the subject no further.
Aloha!
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Dongle

Post by pss »

Sorry, but a LAN is is "local area network". Nothing else.

Intranet is the traffic packets that travel within the local area network.

Internet is the traffic that travels through a gateway to a destination IP address beyond the local intranet network.

The Mate 3 creates it's own intranet among outback devices and offers up a local webserver to an IP address it receives if connected to the internet. The mate 3 does not require any internet connection to perform it's intranet communications among the devices connected to the hub.

I am very clear on my terminology and what I am explaining. I guess I am just not certain of your modified and applied words to some things.
TheWaterman
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:22 pm
My RE system: FP1 fx3048 panel

Re: Dongle

Post by TheWaterman »

Couldn't said it better pss. You can find routers on enay on the low. I'm using Asus dark night with them reflashed with Tomato/WRT firmware been going for yrs now.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

Sorry my network background and CCIE/CCNE certifications always had me being a bit pedantic when it comes to nomenclature. Imprecise terminology always led to issues, so there was an emphasis on making sure people knew what they were saying.
I've long retired from all that, but old habits die hard.
If it floats your boat to call the device an Access Point, then full speed ahead and damn the torpedos!
TheWaterman
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:22 pm
My RE system: FP1 fx3048 panel

Re: Dongle

Post by TheWaterman »

I totally agree raysun. In the as long as people understand.
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Dongle

Post by pss »

My background starts with upgrading 8086 cpu to 8088 for $5 to speed up a PC. And before that Apple, Commodore 64 and even Sinclair. In 1995 I set up my first dedicated internet backbone connection with router and gateway. I operated my own secure Netscape servers, DNS and postal servers. All redundant and built by me. And that was after I installed as my main backbone an SCO Unix system on terminals with a syncable for mainframe connection over POTS. I built hundreds of custom PC's since 1983. So I have just a little bit of understanding of this stuff.

Raysun, I have to disagree about the Mate 3 needing an intranet connection. If I plug my Mate 3 ethernet port directly into my Cox cable modem, the cable modem will supply an IP address to my Mate 3. This completely bypasses any LAN I have set up (or as you like to call it, an intranet) and is a direct connection to the internet.

Check out the TP-Link AX 5400. It is economical and can be had for like $150. It is wifi 6, not 6E. It has software support or easy access point mode if that's the route you want to go, but most importantly, has easy setup in the router menu for acting as a VPN server and a VPN client. Along the client side, you can set up to 5 separate VPN servers (from different VPN sources) to connect to and then easily set which devices on your network you want to pass traffic through the router VPN connection by specifying the MAC address of the device. This way you can let the harmless stuff pass through like your thermostat and use the vpn with your tv. And just a quick log in from the browser and you can switch vpn servers with an easy tab.

I have used the tomato wrt in the past on asus routers.

Also, check out OPNsense and pfSense router software. These are free and run on small hardware to provide some of the best firewall safety and security as well as VPN compatibility. Then you only need a small wifi broadcasting device.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

Raysun, I have to disagree about the Mate 3 needing an intranet connection. If I plug my Mate 3 ethernet port directly into my Cox cable modem, the cable modem will supply an IP address to my Mate 3. This completely bypasses any LAN I have set up (or as you like to call it, an intranet) and is a direct connection to the internet.
So you're saying with the Mate plugged into an ethernet port on the cable modem, it's assigned a routable, and very public IP address?
Wow! That could present a very large security hole. I hope there's some kind of intrusion protection layered in there.
provo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
2 SimpliPhi 3.8-m-24V (150Ah each)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Dongle

Post by provo »

raysun wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:49 am So you're saying with the Mate plugged into an ethernet port on the cable modem, it's assigned a routable, and very public IP address?
That's not what I see -- if I go away from my router and enter the IP address of the Mate3s in Safari on my iPhone, it doesn't connect. I have no idea if that's called an intranet (or a LAN), but it's definitely not public.
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Dongle

Post by pss »

Raysun:

Plug your pc directly into your cable modem. It will pick up a public ip address assigned by the cable modem dhcp server and you can browse the web. You can also request your public IP address from your browser.

Same will happen to the Mate 3.

Also, if you look at your router software, it will tell you what IP address, which is public, has been assigned to your router.

Provo:

Unfortunately, and not to be insulting, there are things like NAT (network address translation) and IP ports which are required to be configured in router software for the ip address of the mate if you want to be able to reach it's intrinsic onboard webserver from beyond your local network. Ever wonder how the Mate 3 allows your to go to Optics RE from anywhere on the internet and log in and view your system in near real time and actually program your system? Remember, you did nothing to accomplish that. it was all done by Outback. And Outback is not making it easy for you to view the Mate 3 webserver outside your home network.
provo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
2 SimpliPhi 3.8-m-24V (150Ah each)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Dongle

Post by provo »

pss wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:41 pm
...there are things like NAT (network address translation) and IP ports which are required to be configured in router software for the ip address of the mate if you want to be able to reach it's intrinsic onboard webserver from beyond your local network.
Interesting -- I'd love to be able to reach the Mate webpage from remote locations! Do you know of anyone (you maybe?) that has made it work? Optics is fine, but it's a bit cumbersome when you just want to look and don't need to change anything.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

provo wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:17 pm
pss wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:41 pm
...there are things like NAT (network address translation) and IP ports which are required to be configured in router software for the ip address of the mate if you want to be able to reach it's intrinsic onboard webserver from beyond your local network.
Interesting -- I'd love to be able to reach the Mate webpage from remote locations! Do you know of anyone (you maybe?) that has made it work? Optics is fine, but it's a bit cumbersome when you just want to look and don't need to change anything.
I've made this work through the tools on my network, essentially accessing via a private VPN. It's overkill for most folks, but was "free" for me.
Since the Mate has zero configurable built-in security, I don't recommend a simple port forwarding scheme. While the Web app is read-only, and telnet very limited in supported commands, the unit is "hackable" and could expose your system to malicious actors.
TheWaterman
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:22 pm
My RE system: FP1 fx3048 panel

Re: Dongle

Post by TheWaterman »

Guys guys good points on both sides. The VPM popped into head as I was reading the posts. Able to read the web interface at times would be a convenience at time but would need to setup a vpn.

If you hooked the Mate3s directly to your modem I could see some protection via Opticsre, but feel the web interface could be open. Pss, have you tried a reasperry pie as vpm?

Side note raysun. Outback emailed my the pin outs for
The mate3s to hub plug. I've ordered the parts to put a remote Mate3s power reboot wifi switch together...
Yes you can set the auto reboot..but.. That requires you to wait 1-48hrs with no access to the Mate3s or web interface :???: . Now if you don't have web interface you reset the gateway via Opticsre if you still have acess.
Attachments
IMG_20220918_135204.jpg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 8601
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Dongle

Post by raysun »

The mate3s to hub plug. I've ordered the parts to put a remote Mate3s power reboot wifi switch together...
Oh right! There is an actual point to this post. 😁
Post Reply