FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

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raysun
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by raysun »

aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:52 am The next 10 days of forecast is lots of PM showers almost everyday.
That will certainly moderate charging.
aaarneson
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by aaarneson »

raysun wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:54 am
aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:52 am The next 10 days of forecast is lots of PM showers almost everyday.
That will certainly moderate charging.
I will still see if I can get someone out there sometime next week.

When charging gets caught up and running normally....how often should the batteries be checked? Every 1-2 months? And what about winter? Can it go longer? Related question...The system needs to stay on in the winter, correct? Don't shut it down? We will barely be there.
raysun
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by raysun »

aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:59 am
raysun wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:54 am
aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:52 am The next 10 days of forecast is lots of PM showers almost everyday.
That will certainly moderate charging.
I will still see if I can get someone out there sometime next week.

When charging gets caught up and running normally....how often should the batteries be checked? Every 1-2 months? And what about winter? Can it go longer? Related question...The system needs to stay on in the winter, correct? Don't shut it down? We will barely be there.
Hopefully one of the Flooded Lead Acid users will weigh in on preferred maintenance routines.

I'd guess monthly would be a good balance.

If there's little system usage in winter, the inverter can be placed in a special mode called "Search" which puts it in a very low-power idle state. Flooded Lead Acid batteries can withstand sub-zero temperatures - provided they are fully charged.

What over-winter maintenance strategy is employed depends on climatic conditions and usage. Perhaps a winter-time routine of principally Float charging might be an option. It would be a good question to pose to Trojan tech support.
Last edited by raysun on Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
aaarneson
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by aaarneson »

Weather Highlights
Summer High: the July high is around 85 degrees
Winter Low: the January low is 15
Rain: averages 18 inches of rain a year
Snow: averages 67 inches of snow a year
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by raysun »

aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:09 am Weather Highlights
Summer High: the July high is around 85 degrees
Winter Low: the January low is 15
Rain: averages 18 inches of rain a year
Snow: averages 67 inches of snow a year
Now you see why I live in Hawaii. Year-roung off-grid system maintenance is much simpler.

I'd definitely bend the virtual ear of Trojan tech support regarding winter maintenance strategies.
aaarneson
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by aaarneson »

raysun wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:14 am
aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:09 am Weather Highlights
Summer High: the July high is around 85 degrees
Winter Low: the January low is 15
Rain: averages 18 inches of rain a year
Snow: averages 67 inches of snow a year
Now you see why I live in Hawaii. Year-roung off-grid system maintenance is much simpler.

I'd definitely bend the virtual ear of Trojan tech support regarding winter maintenance strategies.
Will do.

Already thinking about AGM or Lithium when these batteries die out...
raysun
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Posts: 8271
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by raysun »

aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:16 am
raysun wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:14 am
aaarneson wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:09 am Weather Highlights
Summer High: the July high is around 85 degrees
Winter Low: the January low is 15
Rain: averages 18 inches of rain a year
Snow: averages 67 inches of snow a year
Now you see why I live in Hawaii. Year-roung off-grid system maintenance is much simpler.

I'd definitely bend the virtual ear of Trojan tech support regarding winter maintenance strategies.
Will do.

Already thinking about AGM or Lithium when these batteries die out...
Now your talking more in my lane. Having had plenty of time with both technologies:
Both: Sealed batteries, no water replacement or mess.
AGM: Shortest cycle life and highest cost-per-cycle of all deep cycle batteries.
Lithium: $$$$$, but worth it. Uniquely suited to your use case, as partial state of charge is their operating strength. Sell your first-born and opt for this.
aaarneson
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:52 am
My RE system: FlexPower One
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by aaarneson »

How long do Lithium and AGM batteries last? On average? Compared to the FLA batteries
raysun
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Posts: 8271
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Parallel Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by raysun »

All battery chemistry service lives are partly dependent on quality of maintenance and usage.

Typical lives:
FLA 10 years.
AGM 5 years.
Lithium 10 years.

Lithium is by far the easiest to maintain and use, so most likely to meet the predicted service life in the hands of the average user.
The other big difference between lead acid and lithium is "end of life" performance. The common industry metric for "EoL" is a decline in battery capacity to 80% of original. When lead acid declines to that level, the cells are generally to a point they rapidly degrade to where they no longer hold a charge. When a lithium battery declines to 80% it simply means its 20% smaller. It will keep working for longer than its service life specification. The LiFePo4 battery I use has a specified life of 10,000 cycles. That's 27 years of daily cycling. Do I believe the claim? It doesn't matter, in my case, I'll likely be dead before the battery is.
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Re: FNDC and Mate3s always showing 99-100% SOC

Post by provo »

raysun wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:07 am
Hopefully one of the Flooded Lead Acid users will weigh in on preferred maintenance routines.
I'd guess monthly would be a good balance.
That's about right. In really hot weather (90's day after day), I used to check (and frequently top up the cells) every 3 weeks. While the batteries are recovering from a period of insufficient care, I would take SG readings maybe once a week, though the cells may not need water that often.

If you want to keep flooded lead-acid in good condition, you're going to need to read up on their maintenance. Check out www.batteryuniversity.com, and also the Rolls Battery Manual at www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads ... Manual.pdf

I know you're not using Rolls, so the actual values you input should agree with Trojan's documents, but the flooded section of the Rolls manual is a lot more thorough about some of the details.

Now that I've experienced a year of Simpliphi batteries, I'd never use lead-acid again.
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