intertie / off grid running and charging

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robaroni
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Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:56 am
My RE system: Two VFXR3648A-01, MX 60 (on 1400w string), two Flex 80's, 4280w PV totals, 15.36 kWh LiFePo4, HUB 10, Mate3s. System in since 2006, converted to GVFX 2013, VFXR 2022.

SolarEdge Se6000, 6.44kW PV.
Location: Catskills Mountains, NY

intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by robaroni »

Hi,
I'm running intertie with off grid battery backup. I want to charge my batteries but not use all the PV for charging, I want to sell after my needs are meet so that when the batteries do fully charge I sell automatically. So basically I don't want to use grid power while keeping my batteries charged and running my house.

Can someone direct me to instructions on the best way to set my parameters for this?

Thanks for the time and help,
Rob
raysun
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by raysun »

I'm strictly off-grid so this is out of my lane, but if not done already, you might want to start with this overview of the inverter operating modes:
https://outbackpower.com/downloads/docu ... h_note.pdf
robaroni
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Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:56 am
My RE system: Two VFXR3648A-01, MX 60 (on 1400w string), two Flex 80's, 4280w PV totals, 15.36 kWh LiFePo4, HUB 10, Mate3s. System in since 2006, converted to GVFX 2013, VFXR 2022.

SolarEdge Se6000, 6.44kW PV.
Location: Catskills Mountains, NY

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by robaroni »

Thanks, I think the "mini grid" looks about best for us, I'll have to play with the 3S and see.
Rob
raysun
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Posts: 7742
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by raysun »

Hopefully some of the folks with selling experience will chime in.

AFIK "Grid Tied" is the only mode that permits selling. IIRC, folks often use a "mode switching" strategy for controlling system behavior.
robaroni
Forum Expert
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:56 am
My RE system: Two VFXR3648A-01, MX 60 (on 1400w string), two Flex 80's, 4280w PV totals, 15.36 kWh LiFePo4, HUB 10, Mate3s. System in since 2006, converted to GVFX 2013, VFXR 2022.

SolarEdge Se6000, 6.44kW PV.
Location: Catskills Mountains, NY

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by robaroni »

Yes, that's correct:

What I may be able to do is run "grid tie" and shut off the inverter charger so the grid never charges the batteries. This way I can sell excess to the grid.

The problem is my rural electric supplier is trying to discourage renewables. Billing should subtract my generated monthly energy from what I buy, anything I generate over what I buy I should get a retail check at the end of the year for. They are dismissing all my generated energy, charging me full retail for what they supply and pay me once a year at wholesale for my generation.
As of right now I'm fighting their billing and I've also shut off grid supply for my critical loads for the last week. During the summer I can run indefinitely, right now if the weather gets bad and we have several days of overcast weather I will have to buy occasionally.
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provo
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My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
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One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by provo »

robaroni wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:49 pm Thanks, I think the "mini grid" looks about best for us, I'll have to play with the 3S and see.
Rob
From that Input Modes App Note that raysun linked: "As long as there is adequate active PV power and stored PV power in the batteries to power the loads, then Mini Grid will never connect to the grid."

This is the part I don't like about Mini Grid. When I wake up to a cloudy day and the weather is expected to stay that way, I want to start the day charging and running loads on some combination of grid and PV (grid running all the loads, of course.) I do that manually, and Mini Grid automates it, sort of... I suppose you could use a different mode if you didn't like what it was doing!

With your unhelpful utility you might consider ending your net metering agreement and just using the grid as a generator as needed. Especially if there are conditions like having to be on Time-of-Use rates as PG&E requires.

PGE loved that I didn't want to be net-metered, they understood exactly how I would be using the grid, and that I would never want to sell back. I wonder sometimes if they (or others) will ever refuse to connect someone with solar unless they agree to be net-metered.
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EA6LE-ONE
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Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

provo wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:33 am
This is the part I don't like about Mini Grid. When I wake up to a cloudy day and the weather is expected to stay that way, I want to start the day charging and running loads on some combination of grid and PV (grid running all the loads, of course.) I do that manually, and Mini Grid automates it, sort of... I suppose you could use a different mode if you didn't like what it was doing!
You could approximate when the batteries are usually charged and have the use AC automatically. Have the charger turned off or on very low setting. With the offset enabled will use the most PV available. so in cloudy days will power and eventually charge with grid power as needed.
provo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
2 SimpliPhi 3.8-m-24V (150Ah each)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by provo »

EA6LE-ONE wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:47 am
You could approximate when the batteries are usually charged and have the use AC automatically. Have the charger turned off or on very low setting. With the offset enabled will use the most PV available. so in cloudy days will power and eventually charge with grid power as needed.
Sounds like just as much fussing as I already do manually :lol: . But then I don't have to go to work either!
ralphday224
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Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by ralphday224 »

I use HBX...never selling (no net metering agreement), but using grid power when renewables are not enough. Works well.
robaroni
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Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:56 am
My RE system: Two VFXR3648A-01, MX 60 (on 1400w string), two Flex 80's, 4280w PV totals, 15.36 kWh LiFePo4, HUB 10, Mate3s. System in since 2006, converted to GVFX 2013, VFXR 2022.

SolarEdge Se6000, 6.44kW PV.
Location: Catskills Mountains, NY

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by robaroni »

provo wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:33 am
robaroni wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:49 pm Thanks, I think the "mini grid" looks about best for us, I'll have to play with the 3S and see.
Rob
From that Input Modes App Note that raysun linked: "As long as there is adequate active PV power and stored PV power in the batteries to power the loads, then Mini Grid will never connect to the grid."

This is the part I don't like about Mini Grid. When I wake up to a cloudy day and the weather is expected to stay that way, I want to start the day charging and running loads on some combination of grid and PV (grid running all the loads, of course.) I do that manually, and Mini Grid automates it, sort of... I suppose you could use a different mode if you didn't like what it was doing!

With your unhelpful utility you might consider ending your net metering agreement and just using the grid as a generator as needed. Especially if there are conditions like having to be on Time-of-Use rates as PG&E requires.

PGE loved that I didn't want to be net-metered, they understood exactly how I would be using the grid, and that I would never want to sell back. I wonder sometimes if they (or others) will ever refuse to connect someone with solar unless they agree to be net-metered.
The problem is I have two systems. After I installed my Outback system the NYPA(NY Power Authority) gave me a grant for 6.4 kW of intertie. That's the SolarEdge part of my profile, before I net metered I did exactly that, ran my system when ever I wanted and didn't sell back to the grid.

On the other hand, it's a blatant attempt by the luddites at our rural coop to strong arm the community and deter renewables with Koch Industry tactics. That I am fighting and will continue to fight regardless of the final setup I utilize.

It's the sun and technology, I'm will to work with the grid but if they push they will lose. PV modules cost 10% of what they did 10 years ago, how do you beat that? You don't.
provo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
2 SimpliPhi 3.8-m-24V (150Ah each)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by provo »

robaroni wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:05 pm
On the other hand, it's a blatant attempt by the luddites at our rural coop to strong arm the community and deter renewables with Koch Industry tactics. That I am fighting and will continue to fight regardless of the final setup I utilize.
Well good luck :grin: ! The Solar Edge aspect may have to go away some day, but you'll always have the panels :-)

My next-door neighbor just got a 5.6kW Solar Edge system a couple weeks ago -- she hasn't had a single day (even the cloudy ones) where she didn't sell more than she consumed! Pretty cool -- and she got in on NEM 2.0, which pays back full price/kWh.
robaroni
Forum Expert
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:56 am
My RE system: Two VFXR3648A-01, MX 60 (on 1400w string), two Flex 80's, 4280w PV totals, 15.36 kWh LiFePo4, HUB 10, Mate3s. System in since 2006, converted to GVFX 2013, VFXR 2022.

SolarEdge Se6000, 6.44kW PV.
Location: Catskills Mountains, NY

Re: intertie / off grid running and charging

Post by robaroni »

Great to hear!
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