upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Mate3 and Mate3s communications devices for Outback Power
Post Reply
bigwooo
Forum Expert
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:36 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, 9 kw solar, parallel Midnight Solar E-panels with parallel Outback FXR3048 inverters, Mate 3s, 3 FM80 charge controllers, 4 Phi 3.8 48 v batteries, 6500 watt Honda backup generator.
Location: B.C.S. Mexico

upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by bigwooo »

I currently have a Mate 3 and will be installing an Mate 3S. I can't find any information on what programming is necessary when installing a new Mate into an existing system. I have parallel FXR 3048A inverters and 3 FM 80's. I'm assuming that when I re-boot the system with the Mate 3S it will recognize the setpoints already programmed into the Inverters and FM 80's, and that all I will have to is confirm the settings then reprogram the system settings in the Mate 3? Or......do I need to start from scratch and reprogram everything?

Thanks!
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2391
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: 48v OB inverter and charge controller, hub and mate3s.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by JRHill »

You shouldn't have to restart your system. Remove the Mate3 and plug in the 3s with the fresh SD card. Many settings will be updated in the 3s but you might want to use the set-up wizard to add anything missing and needed. The wizard may not cover everything.

Hint: if you use OpticsRE, go to the Device Map and click on each device. At the bottom of each tab you will see Print. Print the tab to a PDF for all your devices. It will save a lot of headaches if you can't recall a missing setting.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 7748
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by raysun »

The Mate3s should power up, interrogate the equipment, and "read in" their programming. Mate-specific programming will need to be duplicated.

The system is pretty good at the conversion, but I went through each parameter anyway just to make sure nothing looked "out of whack".

IME, I don't recommend the Wizard, other than on a brand-new system. It will overwrite values one may not wish to have changed.

Same with backup/restore a Mate profile. The 3s has parameters not found in the 3. It can lead to some indeterminate values.

I found the swap from 3 to 3s to be pleasantly free of pain.
bigwooo
Forum Expert
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:36 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, 9 kw solar, parallel Midnight Solar E-panels with parallel Outback FXR3048 inverters, Mate 3s, 3 FM80 charge controllers, 4 Phi 3.8 48 v batteries, 6500 watt Honda backup generator.
Location: B.C.S. Mexico

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by bigwooo »

Once again thank you. Unfortunately, at least so far, my internet signal doesn't reach my solar room, so no Optics RE for printing out the settings. That's one of my future projects. Since I have to power down to install the new Simpliphi batteries (when they get here), I'll install the mate 3S then. I made a list of my current parameters for comparison after I fire it back up.

One bit of advice for anyone wanting to add Phi batteries with a mate 3. I made some calls to tech support numbers to see if the mate 3 was compatible with the new simpliphi batteries and was told it would work. I thought I could save some $$ by holding onto the Mate 3. Unfortunately for me, my inverters (FXR3048A) are running older firmware (001-016-015). In this version the max battery cutout voltage is 48v. The Simpliphi batteries need to have the cut out at 50 volts. The new firmware version (001-006-063) allows a higher cut out voltage which the Phi batteries need.

The mate 3 cannot be used to upgrade the inverters to the newer version. Only a Mate 3S can. So...I guess if you have FXR inverter(s) that already have the newer version (063) the Mate 3 will work, but if not, you need a mate 3S to update the inverters.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 7748
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by raysun »

Outback states FXR inverters require the Mate3s. You've described one reason for it.
geoffrey_t
Forum Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:56 am
My RE system: Two arrays: 24 Topoint 190W panels on 3 Watsun solar tracker and 8 stationary 190W panels. The large array linked to Mx80 Charge controller. The stationary array linked to Mx60 charge controller. 4 VFX 3648 Inverters (Mseries), Mate. 24 2V Trojan L16RE (48V system). Whisperwatt MODEL DCA15SPX3 15 KW generator.

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by geoffrey_t »

I am upgrading my system from the M series inverters/Mx charge controllers/Mate to the VFXR inverters/Fx charge controllers/Mate 3S.
As you noted, I will use the Profile wizard for this new startup and have two questions about the wizard.
In the instructions, it notes that I will need to provide the size of my array. Since I have two strings, one 4560 W on the Fx80 charge controller and another 1520W on the Fx60 charge controller, what number do I use?
Also, the wizard asks for Absorb Voltage/Time. The Data sheet for my Trojan L16RE-2V notes a Bulk Charge of 59.28 and a Float Charge of 54. The Absorption Voltage is listed as 2.45V/cell (=58.8) with a maximum absorption time of 4 hours.
Do I use 4 hours as my Aborb time?
Thank you.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 7748
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by raysun »

The array (in kW, I believe) is the sum of the individual arrays, so 6.1kW.

Set the Absorb Voltage and Time to the values normally used for the battery, or the manufacturer's recommended settings if a new battery.

I find the wizard works best on a brand-new, never-been-configured system. When using it with existing components (or even brand new components) it will be helpful to follow up by going through all the settings and checking them manually.

FYI: If the existing system is on Optics RE, and you wish to retain the history (associated with the existing Mate) DO NOT register the Mate3s using the on-line Optics RE configuration. Rather, contact support and let them know you will be swapping in a new Mate3s. They can register it on the "back end" such that your Optics history is retained.
User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Czar
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

geoffrey_t wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:00 pm one 4560 W on the Fx80 charge controller
FX80 max output is 3840W, you might want to reduce that sting, move some of the panels to FX60 that can accommodate 2880W.
geoffrey_t
Forum Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:56 am
My RE system: Two arrays: 24 Topoint 190W panels on 3 Watsun solar tracker and 8 stationary 190W panels. The large array linked to Mx80 Charge controller. The stationary array linked to Mx60 charge controller. 4 VFX 3648 Inverters (Mseries), Mate. 24 2V Trojan L16RE (48V system). Whisperwatt MODEL DCA15SPX3 15 KW generator.

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by geoffrey_t »

Another question about the profile wizard. When it asks for "battery bank capacity", does it want the nominal capacity of the battery bank, so in my case the C20 would be 1110, or does it want the actual, useable capacity (since I only run my batteries down to 20%, my useable capacity would be 20% of the nominal capacity)? Thanks.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 7748
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by raysun »

geoffrey_t wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:07 pm Another question about the profile wizard. When it asks for "battery bank capacity", does it want the nominal capacity of the battery bank, so in my case the C20 would be 1110, or does it want the actual, useable capacity (since I only run my batteries down to 20%, my useable capacity would be 20% of the nominal capacity)? Thanks.
Nominal capacity.
geoffrey_t
Forum Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:56 am
My RE system: Two arrays: 24 Topoint 190W panels on 3 Watsun solar tracker and 8 stationary 190W panels. The large array linked to Mx80 Charge controller. The stationary array linked to Mx60 charge controller. 4 VFX 3648 Inverters (Mseries), Mate. 24 2V Trojan L16RE (48V system). Whisperwatt MODEL DCA15SPX3 15 KW generator.

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by geoffrey_t »

Thank you for help with this wizard.
The next question is the inverter settings for "Search". Is the "Search mode" useful?
If so, what pulse length and pulse spacing should be used?
What factors determine these numbers?
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 7748
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: upgrade Mate 3 to Mate 3s

Post by raysun »

geoffrey_t wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:22 am Thank you for help with this wizard.
The next question is the inverter settings for "Search". Is the "Search mode" useful?
If so, what pulse length and pulse spacing should be used?
What factors determine these numbers?
IME, in a continuously occupied home, Search is more inconvenient than the power savings are worth. The slightly complex threshold settings, and noticeable "turn on" delay make it a bit of a pain to set up and use. The controlling parameters: pulse length and spacing have to be determined by "cut and try" methods. The values are correct when house loads stop behaving in unpredictable manners and the turn-on delay is below annoyance thresholds. Once established, the values may change with changes in loads. After much "cutting and trying" the conclusion here was the settings were optimum with Search disabled.

Most modern homes have electrical appliances running 24 x 7, e.g.: LAN and internet equipment, etc., that don't behave as well when arbitrarily cycled off and on.

The VFX class inverters idle at 39W. If the four inverters are configured for 240V operation, the idle current is double as the two phase masters are always active. The slave inverters idle at under 10W. I'd bet with the capacity of your system, that amount of power would go unnoticed, especially if there is a 100W or more continuous load on the system.
Post Reply