Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Discussion about the FM100, FM80, and FM60 Charge Controllers

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StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

I have 2 Flexmax 80s and I would like to purchase new Lithium batteries instead of Lead Acid batteries. Does anyone know good Lithium batteries that work with the Flexmax charge controllers? The inverter is a Radian GS8048a and I have 24 330w (2 arrays of 12 with 3 in serial) solar panels. I am looking for some capacity from 15KWh and up. It will be used in Mini Grid mode maybe pulling it down to 80% SOC daily so not worked hard. I would appreciate anything you can tell me. I thank you in advance. Let me know if you need any additional information.
Thank you,
Steven
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

Pretty much any Lithium Ferro Phosphate (LFP) battery can be charged with the FlexMax charge controllers. I have SimpliPhi 3.8-48 batteries and two FM80s with 7kW of solar panels, and the setup works superbly.
For your consideration, be sure to select a battery brand and sufficient peak kW output to start the Radian. Many of the "low end" LFP batteries cannot pass enough current for that purpose.
I am very happy with my SimpliPhi battery. However, I'm hesitant to recommend them for "standby" use such as Mini Grid. They're too expensive for that purpose. Perhaps one of the emerging "mid-tier" battery brands that have come to market recently, are much less costly, and are much improved over their "Chinese commodity battery" predecessors. A name mentioned on this forum by folks whose experience I respect is Pytes. The e-box 48100R (48V @ 100AH) is a candidate. Four of the units should be more than sufficient to power a Radian, and would easily handle as much as 200A charge current.
https://www.solar-electric.com/pytes-e- ... ttery.html
The Pytes / Outback integration guide:
https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind ... -power.pdf
StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

Thank you Raysun for your response, I really appreciate it. I have been looking at the SimpliPhi batteries as an option. It is good to know that the Flexmax can work with Lithium. While I am currently only going down 20%, I plan to move more of the house/shop over to this system so it will being going much deeper as I go. I currently have Trojan Lead Acid (LA) batteries so that is the reason for only going 20%, I really did not want to overtax them and lose too life with them. This system I plan to have the Lithium on is actually the second inverter setup. I have not decided if I replace the LA batteries or just have each inverter connected to their own set of batteries. Too many questions still to decide which way I go. Thank you for the other options as well, I will research those as well.
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

A big benefit to the SimpliPhi is a lot of we Outback users employ them, and they have a good track record. My battery has operated without a hitch for over two years of daily cycling. The battery uses quality cells, and a simple BMS (which I favor). Set up correctly and operated within their limits, one has every expectation of long service life. The only "con", in my book, is the cost relative to several batteries that have come along, promising similar service at a significantly lower price.
I currently have Trojan Lead Acid (LA) batteries so that is the reason for only going 20%, I really did not want to overtax them and lose too life with them.
Of course, lower depth of discharge equates to longer battery life in virtually every manufacturer's literature. I'm not a battery scientist, but have been around deep-cycle batteries enough to notice there's a hidden consequence to "shallow cycling" lead acid batteries. A battery that is lightly charged and lightly discharged can tend to have its electrolyte stratify, leaving the top of the liquid column at lower specific gravity than the bottom. This can lead to unexpected sulfation of the cells. If "light use" is the regular routine, it will be beneficial to perform periodic Equalization charges to "stir things up" within the cells. I'd guess monthly would be a good interval.
Lithium charges, discharges, and stores energy using an entirely different principal. They are perfectly happy with low Depth of Discharge, partial State of Charge, and deep discharge operations. They also charge much easier and more efficiently. I won't classify them as "set and forget", but they are the closest thing to it when it comes to batteries.
StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

With my existing LA batteries, I do an Equalization monthly because of that stratification. The 3 years I have had them, I have not had any problems with them. Only think I don't like is that when it pulls a lot of energy, the voltage drops for a very short time then picks up. This and the cycles with DOD, this is why I am looking at the Lithium batteries. I initially thought 4 of the Simpliphi 3.8KWh batteries would be a good fit for the Radian/Flexmax 80s. My biggest problem is that I do have the LA batteries that are only 3 years old that I hate to just replace. I wanted to leave them on the one inverter and the Lithium on the second inverter but don't think that is possible. Do you know of any way to run both inverters with their own batteries or will I have to just use the Lithium bank?
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

Well done on this maintenance. This appears to not be your first rodeo. 😉
A 1225AH lead acid battery should be fairly "stiff" under load. High current demand may cause a minor voltage drop, but if its enough to be of concern, my first inclination would be to check for something in the cabling. If powering a pair of Radians. Individual 4/0 cable pairs from battery to inverters would not be too excessive. One of the pro installers on this forum recommends using an IR thermometer to look for "hot spots" that might indicate corrosion, loose connections, defective circuit breakers, etc.
SimpliPhi has warranty requirements related to the number of batteries required for a given inverter. Their integration guides and warranty guide spell it out. IIRC it's a minimum of four 3.8-48 batteries per Radian.
I get it about not wanting to waste useful service life with the current battery. The Outback architecture (for FX and GS inverters) is pretty much one battery per system. The typical charging circuitry, monitoring, and controller are set up for that. Technically, each inverted could be supplied from an independent battery, but managing two batteries would be a real headache. When I was confronted with the same dilemma, I bit the bullet and retired my lead acid battery. Basically, I donated it to a young army vet who was just starting out, trying to get his life back together after coming home from war. Maybe there's a worthy organization in your area who could use a battery upgrade, and provide you with a charitable donation tax credit to boot.
pss
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1323
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by pss »

Again, the Pytes Ebox 48100R and the new V5 server rack batteries all UL listed, California CEC listed, USA supported, 10 year warranty, REVO or BYD cells, and most importantly come with all of the charging information for Outback Power charge controllers and inverters.

Well documented with all the illustrated manuals to make hookup easy. Support for racks, cabinets, etc.

Save yourself some money.
StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

Thank you both for responding, this is very helpful.

I know this is a different subject but Raysun, you said it was possible to have two bank, can you explain how this is possible. I like the Trojan batteries but they are not really enough for the entire house so wanted to see about other batteries. If two sets of batteries are possible, I would like to know how this is. Can you explain?

Thank you,
Steven
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

StevenSanford wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:09 am Thank you both for responding, this is very helpful.

I know this is a different subject but Raysun, you said it was possible to have two bank, can you explain how this is possible. I like the Trojan batteries but they are not really enough for the entire house so wanted to see about other batteries. If two sets of batteries are possible, I would like to know how this is. Can you explain?

Thank you,
Steven
I misread the equipment specs and took it to read there is two inverters in the system. Re-reading, I see it's one.
It would be possible to have two battery banks, but not especially practical. Each of the batteries would need to be maintained and used separately. The operational hassle isn't worth the effort, IMO.
However, if it must be, then provisions must be made to charge each bank separately, and switch one bank at a time into the inverter battery input circuit.
Battery Charging
The simplest, and most operationally reliable charging scheme would be to have independent charging systems (solar array, charge controller, etc.) for each battery. The expense of doing so may negate any utility of having two batteries however.
If a single charging system is to support both batteries, then a scheme to switch between them must be devised. It would consist of:
• Disconnect PV Array from charge controller.
• Switch battery connected to charge controller.
• Reprogram charge controller for attached battery.
• Connect PV arrary.
A battery monitor would be necessary for each battery to track the status. Stand-alone monitors like the Victron series would serve best, one for each battery.
Inverter feed
A means to switch the battery feeding the inverter must be devised. Two possibilities are "Break before Make" or "Make before Break" switching.
"Break before Make" is safest for the batteries, but will shut down the inverter during switching. An more elegant shutdown than simply crashing the inverter is called for.
"Make before Break" would potentially avoid inverter shutdown, but could damage batteries, so I'd hesitate considering it.

Telecoms with large investments in lead acid battery infrastructures have started devising schemes for using Lead Acid and Lithium batteries tied in parallel. It can work, but will compromise the service life of the Lithium battery cells. They see it cheaper to burn up Lithium batteries than undertaking the cost of tearing out the Lead Acid infrastructure. What might look good on their balance sheet isn't necessarily a good technical solution for we homeowners.
the Trojan batteries... are not really enough for the entire house
The current battery is 48V @ 942AH (20 hour rate), so 45kWH gross capacity. At 50% DoD, 27.5kWH net capacity per charge cycle.
What is the total energy requirement for your home?
StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

Thank you Raysun. I have updated my profile to match what I have installed and what I plan to install additionally. I have two complete pre-built 8048a-01 systems. They come with the two charge controllers and FNC and Mate3s and I have two additional combiner units. I also have 24 additional panels (bought them cheap from a man who installs the huge solar farms for the power companies) that I plan to put up. The only thing I am missing is what batteries to put on the second system. I can connect the second 8048a to the Trojan batteries but I hate to pull them down below 70%, they lose way too many cycles as you go lower. I can do that until they wear out and then replace them but I am at the point of retiring and I don't want to spend that much money for new batteries with no income. If I get them now, I am golden with the wife. That is the reason for the possible second set of batteries for the second 8048a powering the same panel in the house.
As to what I want to put on them, I really want to basically go offgrid with everything except my home air conditioner. That could work out to a lot of power if the wife starts too many things at once. The peaks are the problems. I can calculate it but have just been moving things over to the inverter subpanel as I see their impact on the day to day discharge. So far it has been in the upper 70's SOC. I want to put a lot more on it which concerns me about the batteries. This is why I asked about having separate battery banks for the two inverters.
I hope this explains it a little better. Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks,
Steven
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

With two complete systems the equation changes somewhat. There are a couple of scenarios.
The first scenario would be to segregate the house loads into three entities: Main Load Panel, and two sub-panels - Critical Load Panel 1, and Critical Load Panel 2. The two Critical Load panels would be isolated from each other for inverter operation, and the two Radian systems would be independent, each servicing a sub-panel. The output of the two Radians would need to remain separated, as there is nothing keeping them in phase with each other. Combining out-of-phase AC outputs would "let the magic smoke out", requiring some very expensive inverter repair. The Main Panel would service three circuits: the air conditioning, and the two sub-panels. The rest of the "house loads" would be apportioned to the sub-panels. Each sub-panel would be rated at 8kW total load. The Main Panel - Sub Panels wiring scheme would require Interlocks, or automatic transfer switches, to maintain safe operation if switching from grid to inverter is to be used.
The second scenario is to combine the two Radians into a single inverter array. This would require disconnecting the "secondary" Radian from its AC Output Circuit, and wiring it into the "Primary" Radian's AC Output Circuit. The secondary Radian would also be disconnected from the 2nd Mate and connected to the 1st HUB/Mate by moving its communication cable.
In this configuration the two Radians would be "stacked" as Master/Slave, with the Master controlling all AC Output. The 2nd system's Mate, charge controllers, independent PV array could be used as-is to charge a 2nd battery that could be employed to drive the secondary Radian. It would literally be a full system without inverter, with battery current going to a "mystery load" (the secondary Radian.)
This second scenario has a fly in the ointment. The Master / Slave Radians are controlled by the Master. This is fine for everything except battery charging by the inverters from an AC source (grid or generator.) The Master controls the charging, so only one battery type can be charged. This would mean for charging the other battery from AC an external AC charger would be needed.
The "two battery" scenario is tricky. It can be done, but it's not orthodox by any means.
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

Thoughts about battery management for long service life.
I understand the desire to shallowly discharge a lead acid battery in order to maximize its service life. Though it gives more cycles, each one is smaller capacity.
Lithium Ferro Phosphate batteries are an entirely different animal. They inherently give longer service life, and do so while providing a much larger usable capacity. Discharging them to 20% SoC has little if any material impact on longevity.
The 950AH FLA battery, discharged 30%, has an effective capacity of 14kWH.
A 950AH LFP, discharged 80%, has an effective capacity of 39kWH.
Needless to say, an LFP of smaller gross capacity can easily serve to support the second Radian to the same capacity as the primary Radian operates with now. A 325AH LFP would be a match for the FLA.
santafedave
Forum Guru
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:05 pm
My RE system: GS8048-A-300AFCI 8 KW 48V Mate3s with 2 FM100 charge controllers pre wired.
21 Canadian Solar 320 Watt PERC MC4 CS3K-320MS panels.
3 Canadian Solar 325W Module Mono Perc 1000VDC panels.
Fortress eVault Max 18.5 kWh battery
8 FullRiver AGM DC400-6 Sealed Batteries 415AH 6V L16 size Replaced.
Fireraptor quick disconnect.

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by santafedave »

I went with the Fortress Power eVault Max 18.5kWh LFP Battery. Had for about a year and is compatible with my Radian. Has worked great both during the hot summers and the cool winters where I live. I had mine installed by the local solar dealer and the gentleman who installed them has done over a 100 of them in the area and he loves them because they are easy to set up to the Radian.
amitbajpayee
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Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:02 pm

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by amitbajpayee »

Heelo! Hope you are doing wel, So in my oppinion upgrading to lithium batteries for your solar system with two Flexmax 80 controllers and a Radian GS8048a inverter is a wise choice. Consider compatibility, capacity (15 kWh+), voltage match, communication protocols, temperature suitability, brand reputation and warranty details. Ensure seamless integration with Flexmax controllers. Connect with battery manufacturers for specific information before finalizing your decision.
Empowering sustainable living with https://agnisolar.com/
StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

Thank you all for responding I appreciate the information.

What I am thinking of doing is getting Lithium batteries and put them on the new 8048a inverter and have the hub connected to the change controllers and mate3s. The original 8048 with the Trojan batteries, I am going to take the inverter cable and connect to the new inverter's hub making them a master / slave situation. However, the inverter will not be connected to the changer controllers for the Trojan batteries so it will not know anything about them. I plan to leave it that way with the original only connecting the Mate3s, 2 change controllers, and the Trojan SIND 1225 batteries. This way the new Lithium system will take the brunt of the loads and pull from the lead acid batteries as needed. I know there are opportunities for the lead acid batteries to be pulled down too much but I would prefer to use them until they are no longer good. I figure this is the best of both worlds that I can come up with. I have an FNC in both inverters so I think each one will be connected to each battery bank so the Mate3s (Optics RE) can report on levels. If it looks like I am pulling too much from the lead acid batteries then I will just adjust my usage to more during the day than at night. Each inverter will have their own 24 solar panels so I think I will be pretty good. Please let me know if you see any flaws in this setup.
Thanks,
Steven
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

As an IT systems manager, you must be familiar with KISS.
That ain't it. ☺️

What will work:
• Two independent batteries connected to two separate sets of charge controllers, each being independently charged under the same sun.
Each inverter will have their own 24 solar panels...
If by this is meant: "Each inverter's independent battery will have 24 solar panels connected to a pair of FM80s charging the battery...", then yes, it should be OK.
• The new FlexPower system connected to the new battery.

What might work:
• The old GS8048 disconnected from the old FlexPower HUB, connected to the new FlexPower HUB, and configured as a slave.
• The old Mate/FNDC monitoring the now "inverterless" FlexPower panel, tracking solar charge into the old battery, and discharge into some undefined "black hole".

What won't work very well:
• Optics RE making sense out of the system. There will be two Mate's, so two systems at the same site. Each will, at best, tell part of the story. Operating and managing in this scenario is bound to reveal some unique "features" in the software.

What won't work at all:
Charging the old battery from an AC Input (grid, gen) to the inverters. In a Master/Slave stack, the Master calls all the shots on battery charging, the Slave inverter's configuration is ignored completely. Unless both batteries use exactly the same charge parameters, and charge at exactly the same rate, the charger environment will become confused. The safest option is to set the Slave charger mode:OFF.
StevenSanford
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:02 pm
My RE system: 2 - Radian 8048A-01 Inverter (FLEXpower FPR-8048A-01)
4 - Flexmax FM80 Charge Controllers
(Absorb: 56.4V 2hrs, Float: 54.0V, ReBulk: 52.0V on one set to Trojan batteries)
(Second set has not been decided yet)
2 - Mate 3s
2 - Flexnet DC
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes with Emergency shut-off
(2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box, RSI, PNL-750-DC-RT, BKR-CTRL-DC)
2 - ICSPlus Combiner Boxes (2-FWPV6-FH600-SDA Combiner box)
(Will be connected to existing Emergency Shut-off)
8 - 6v Trojan SIND 06 1225 FLA batteries (48V setup - C20:940Ah)
? - Batteries for second 8048A not selected yet.
24 - 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
24 - (Not installed yet) 330W (7920W Array) Seraphim SEG-6PA-330WW
(Imp: 8.80A, Vmp: 37.5V, Isc: 9.12A, Voc: 45.9V)
(3 serial connected, 8 groups in parallel)
Location: Lincolnton, Georgia

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by StevenSanford »

Thanks Raysun.

Ok, not as clean as I had hoped but a couple of things:
What won't work very well:
• Optics RE making sense out of the system. There will be two Mate's, so two systems at the same site. Each will, at best, tell part of the story. Operating and managing in this scenario is bound to reveal some unique "features" in the software.
I will still have each system, the new inverter (master) and old inverter (slave) along with all of the new Inverter equipment (CCs [connected to 24 panels], FNC, HUB, Mate3s) connected to the internet and get good info. The older Mate3s will be connected to only the Hub, FNC,CCs [connected to 24 panels], temp sensor, vent fan and my intranet being blocked for outbound to the internet. That way I can at least connect to it and pull status. I am surprised that OpticsRE cannot handle a connection to a Mate3s without an Inverter hooked to it but I can survive without it.
What won't work at all:
Charging the old battery from an AC Input (grid, gen) to the inverters. In a Master/Slave stack, the Master calls all the shots on battery charging, the Slave inverter's configuration is ignored completely. Unless both batteries use exactly the same charge parameters, and charge at exactly the same rate, the charger environment will become confused. The safest option is to set the Slave charger mode:OFF.
I do not charge from the grid so both will be turned off. I don't want that option. However, I do want both connected to the grid for "Grid Tied" with Offset to feed power out if I have some to spare.

When the Lead Acid batteries die out then I will move everything over to the Lithium batteries and connect up everything like it is supposed to. I just am not ready to get rid of the older batteries yet. I hope this will work.
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 10766
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: Recommendations on New Lithium Batteries for Flexmax

Post by raysun »

I am surprised that OpticsRE cannot handle a connection to a Mate3s without an Inverter hooked to it but I can survive without it.
I think Optics will work without an inverter in the mix, it's just that it will look weird, with solar charging (To Battery), and a "mystery" discharging (From Battery.)
It should show SoC, but unless the old battery has been capacity tested recently and Battery AH adjusted, the figure is not likely to be accurate.
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