AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Discussion about adding energy storage to grid-dependent inverters using OutBack Power technology
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chinezbrun
Forum Guru
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:52 am
My RE system: Photovoltaics Panels:
9750W - 2 strings 21x250w,15X300 (EST)
2880W - 1 string 9X320W (SOUTH)

Charge Controllers: FlexMax 60, FlexMax 80

Inverters: VFXR3048E (2 parallel stacked) AC coupled with main inverter
Main Inverter: DEYE 3 phase Hibrid 8kW 48v 2xMPPT SUN-8K-SG04LP3-EU

Batteries:
Lead acid: 48V 400A - TAB 3 EPZS 375L 2V (linked with OUTBACK)
LiFePo4: 3 x 48v 100A (5.12Kw) - PYTES

Monitoring:
MATE3S
MonitorMate, OpticsRE
Pytes_Serial
Home Assistant
Location: Romania
Contact:

AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by chinezbrun »

Hi guys,

I have a brand new Deye inverter with the possibility to accept on his dedicated port a Grid Tied inverter that is controlled by frequency shifting and disconnection relay.

My old VFXR 3048 inverter is still good and have solar panels attached to.
So, the question is if this can be used and to be connected in GridTied mode and to be setup for selling his power to Deye.

Is this model able to react on frequency shifting ? Any special settings in Grid Interface Protection?

Below the schema:
Screenshot 2023-09-27 141000.jpg
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3261
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof (2007/2017):
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 24 (2x12) 235W Lightways panels with Enphase M215 microinverters plus 6 - 275W Talesun panels, also with M215s, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Trina Solar 270W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger), installed 3/5/24 (replaced original 2019 Talesun DC array)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W (manually switched during outages), Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by Mike Curran »

The manual says it will:
Screenshot_20230927_084059_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
This thread asked the same question but for a GVFX inverter: viewtopic.php?p=102311#p102311
Your schematic shows the "second inverter" (assuming that's your VFXR) connected to something labeled "GEN". What is that?
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
chinezbrun
Forum Guru
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:52 am
My RE system: Photovoltaics Panels:
9750W - 2 strings 21x250w,15X300 (EST)
2880W - 1 string 9X320W (SOUTH)

Charge Controllers: FlexMax 60, FlexMax 80

Inverters: VFXR3048E (2 parallel stacked) AC coupled with main inverter
Main Inverter: DEYE 3 phase Hibrid 8kW 48v 2xMPPT SUN-8K-SG04LP3-EU

Batteries:
Lead acid: 48V 400A - TAB 3 EPZS 375L 2V (linked with OUTBACK)
LiFePo4: 3 x 48v 100A (5.12Kw) - PYTES

Monitoring:
MATE3S
MonitorMate, OpticsRE
Pytes_Serial
Home Assistant
Location: Romania
Contact:

Re: AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by chinezbrun »

Gen port on Deye inverters can have multiple purpose Gen input, Micro inv input or SmartLoads. These can be set via interface.

On Microinverter input Deye can handle an Ac coupled inverter and will manage the power between loads, battery or grid

Basicaly Deye will create a minigrid where the second inverter will connect.

Here i need support. Second inverter is a Outback power VFXR3048E, with grid tied capabilities.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3261
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof (2007/2017):
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 24 (2x12) 235W Lightways panels with Enphase M215 microinverters plus 6 - 275W Talesun panels, also with M215s, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Trina Solar 270W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger), installed 3/5/24 (replaced original 2019 Talesun DC array)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W (manually switched during outages), Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by Mike Curran »

Cool. Haven't heard of anyone AC-coupling an Outback inverter to another inverter. If you go ahead, let us know how it works.
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
chinezbrun
Forum Guru
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:52 am
My RE system: Photovoltaics Panels:
9750W - 2 strings 21x250w,15X300 (EST)
2880W - 1 string 9X320W (SOUTH)

Charge Controllers: FlexMax 60, FlexMax 80

Inverters: VFXR3048E (2 parallel stacked) AC coupled with main inverter
Main Inverter: DEYE 3 phase Hibrid 8kW 48v 2xMPPT SUN-8K-SG04LP3-EU

Batteries:
Lead acid: 48V 400A - TAB 3 EPZS 375L 2V (linked with OUTBACK)
LiFePo4: 3 x 48v 100A (5.12Kw) - PYTES

Monitoring:
MATE3S
MonitorMate, OpticsRE
Pytes_Serial
Home Assistant
Location: Romania
Contact:

Re: AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by chinezbrun »

Sure. What i need to know is if Outback is able to react on frequency shifting or simply connect disconnect on low/ high freq.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3261
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof (2007/2017):
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 24 (2x12) 235W Lightways panels with Enphase M215 microinverters plus 6 - 275W Talesun panels, also with M215s, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Trina Solar 270W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger), installed 3/5/24 (replaced original 2019 Talesun DC array)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W (manually switched during outages), Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by Mike Curran »

I think that only the Radian inverters (4048 & 8048) can do what you're asking, not FXR's. I'm not an expert on this, though.
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
chinezbrun
Forum Guru
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:52 am
My RE system: Photovoltaics Panels:
9750W - 2 strings 21x250w,15X300 (EST)
2880W - 1 string 9X320W (SOUTH)

Charge Controllers: FlexMax 60, FlexMax 80

Inverters: VFXR3048E (2 parallel stacked) AC coupled with main inverter
Main Inverter: DEYE 3 phase Hibrid 8kW 48v 2xMPPT SUN-8K-SG04LP3-EU

Batteries:
Lead acid: 48V 400A - TAB 3 EPZS 375L 2V (linked with OUTBACK)
LiFePo4: 3 x 48v 100A (5.12Kw) - PYTES

Monitoring:
MATE3S
MonitorMate, OpticsRE
Pytes_Serial
Home Assistant
Location: Romania
Contact:

Re: AC coupled VFXR3048 with a hybrid inverter (Deye)

Post by chinezbrun »

topic update.

Outback Power VFXR3048E cannot react to frequency change.

However, I connected the inverter to the DEYE as mentioned above and was able to SELL the power.
When we have the grid up and you are allowed to SELL, the system works well.
When the grid is down or selling to the grid is limited, OutBack will continue to SELL the power to the local grid (mini-grid) IF and ONLY IF DEYE needs that power to handle its tasks or charge its batteries.

When the Outback power is higher than this need, DEYE will try to reduce the OutBack power by increasing the frequency. The Outback is unresponsive and when the frequency reaches the maximum value set in the Grid Protection Interface it will simply disconnect. Then try to reconnect after X minutes set in the reconnect delay timer.

In addition, Deye has its own protection and if the voltage and frequency of the connected inverter reach a certain level, it will disconnect from it. All these connections and disconnections bother me a little.

To conclude:
Yes, Outback can work as a coupled inverter with the DEYE in the above configuration, with some limitations and not at the full potential of the DEYE, especially when the export to the network grid is limited .
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