2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Discussion about OutBack Inverters in Off Grid Applications

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2jackmans@gmail.com
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:22 pm
My RE system: Inverter: Outback power Radian GS8048, Serial No: GS1430F0100376.
Charger(2): Outback FLEXmax 80, Serial No's: FM80S33240 & FM80S33270.
Communication Manager: HUB 4 with MATE 3.
Batteries: 4ea HAWKER Power Source
Type 006085F215
6 hr capacity 850Ah
Nominal voltage 12V
Finish rate 43 amps
Specific gravity 1275-1285
Battery I.D.: PL40515783
PL40515784
PL40515785
PL40515786
Combiner: MidNite Solar Inc. MNPV12.
Load Center: Outback GS Load Center.
Generator: Kohler 20RESC 20KW

2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by 2jackmans@gmail.com »

1. Will my 8048A system with its Mate 3 operate properly without charge controllers connected to it? My 8048A system is drawing its DC power from another
older 8048 system with its own Mate 3, charge controllers & obviously, batteries.

2. Please explain why I cannot connect the AC outputs from both inverters in parallel to the loads? I want to double my amperage (100A) so I can operate
more appliances in my home. Their is a wiring diagram in the installation manual showing this can be done....??..

Just to clear the air, I am new to the forum and apologize for asking your replies be emailed to me in my last post. KEJ
Last edited by 2jackmans@gmail.com on Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 11032
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: 2 inverters sharing one set of batteries.

Post by raysun »

2jackmans@gmail.com wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:37 pm Will the Outback Radian 8048A operate alone with its own Mate 3 and Hub and share power from the batteries used on my older Outback Radian 8048 system? Of course that means the 8048A will not have its own FlexMax chargers. My old 8048 system will maintain the four 12v (48vdc) Hawker LA batteries rated each at 6 hours capacity at 650 amp hrs; finish rate 45 amps. NOTE: There is an input on the Hub communications manager for the FlexMax charger. Will this create a problem with the Mate 3 and the rest of the operation of the 8048A system?
Please notify me by email: 2jackmans@gmail.com
Though a bit more cumbersome, there's no reason that wouldn't work.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the GS8048 doesn't "own" the FlexMax, the battery does. The charge controller operates autonomously, accepting and controlling power from the PV array, and charging the battery. The FM doesn't really know, or care, about the inverter(s) that might be drawing power from the battery, or charging the battery in parallel with the charge controller.

The separate inverters can both connect to the battery, and would need to be feeding separate AC load circuits. They cannot be feeding a common AC load. The total "house load" will need to be divided between separate load panels. They may be now, if some of the circuits are on a subpanel. It will need to be disconnected from the main panel. A competent electrician will be helpful for getting set up correctly.

Both inverters could be fed from common AC input, either grid or generator, of sufficient capacity, and both could be configured to charge the battery simultaneously, if desired.

Once configured, the 2nd Radian doesn't strictly need a Mate, though it would be convenient from an operational standpoint. Since the Radian, and Mate, would be the only devices on the "2nd network" a Hub isn't necessary, the Mate could be plugged into the Radian directly.

Also, the AXS Port might be considered in place of the Mate. It can connect to Optics like the Mate, so once the Radian is configured, monitoring and control is all on-line. Since the AXS Port doesn't have a front-panel interface, initial configuration of the AXS/Radian would need a PC with software that can talk to the AXS Port. Andrew Welch's WattPlot is ideal for this, and a lot more.
Alternately, the existing Mate can be borrowed to configure the Radian, then disconnected and plugged back into its normal home.
2jackmans@gmail.com
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:22 pm
My RE system: Inverter: Outback power Radian GS8048, Serial No: GS1430F0100376.
Charger(2): Outback FLEXmax 80, Serial No's: FM80S33240 & FM80S33270.
Communication Manager: HUB 4 with MATE 3.
Batteries: 4ea HAWKER Power Source
Type 006085F215
6 hr capacity 850Ah
Nominal voltage 12V
Finish rate 43 amps
Specific gravity 1275-1285
Battery I.D.: PL40515783
PL40515784
PL40515785
PL40515786
Combiner: MidNite Solar Inc. MNPV12.
Load Center: Outback GS Load Center.
Generator: Kohler 20RESC 20KW

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by 2jackmans@gmail.com »

Please explain why I cannot connect the AC outputs from both inverters in parallel to the loads? I want to double my amperage (100A) so I can operate
more appliances in my home. Their is a wiring diagram in the installation manual showing this can be done....??..
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 11032
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by raysun »

2jackmans@gmail.com wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:36 pm Please explain why I cannot connect the AC outputs from both inverters in parallel to the loads? I want to double my amperage (100A) so I can operate
more appliances in my home. Their is a wiring diagram in the installation manual showing this can be done....??..
In order for the AC Output to be common, the two inverters would need their waveform phases to be in sync. Synchronization is handled by the Master inverter in a stacked configuration, but the independent inverters don't have a method to sync the outputs. Connecting the unsynced outputs will destroy output circuitry.
If the two inverters were of the same firmware level, they could be stacked. Since they are not, each needs to service independent loads.
2jackmans@gmail.com
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:22 pm
My RE system: Inverter: Outback power Radian GS8048, Serial No: GS1430F0100376.
Charger(2): Outback FLEXmax 80, Serial No's: FM80S33240 & FM80S33270.
Communication Manager: HUB 4 with MATE 3.
Batteries: 4ea HAWKER Power Source
Type 006085F215
6 hr capacity 850Ah
Nominal voltage 12V
Finish rate 43 amps
Specific gravity 1275-1285
Battery I.D.: PL40515783
PL40515784
PL40515785
PL40515786
Combiner: MidNite Solar Inc. MNPV12.
Load Center: Outback GS Load Center.
Generator: Kohler 20RESC 20KW

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by 2jackmans@gmail.com »

Thank you Raysun for your response. I think I asked the wrong question; I have since learned that my new 8048A will not communicate with my older 8048 as they will not sync sharing the same MATE 3. What I have since done is set up my new 8048A with its own MATE 3 as an independent system being powered by the same battery source (PV) as the older 8048. I am also paralleling off the old 8048's grid input; however, the AC output from the 8048A is connected to a separate load center containing half of my homes circuits. So far this is working well. What I would like to do is parallel the AC outputs from the two miss-matched inverters into only one load center containing all of the homes circuits. Will this work??
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Mike Curran
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Posts: 3287
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof (2007/2017):
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 24 (2x12) 235W Lightways panels with Enphase M215 microinverters plus 6 - 275W Talesun panels, also with M215s, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Trina Solar 270W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger), installed 3/5/24 (replaced original 2019 Talesun DC array)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W (manually switched during outages), Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by Mike Curran »

The AC outputs of your 2 8048s will not play nice with one another - their waveforms will be out of sync. AFAIK, you can connect them. And if all you want to do is put both their outputs into a single load center without connecting them, that's not a good idea, either.
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 11032
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by raysun »

AFAIK, you can't connect them.
For the reason Mike pointed out, the output of the two inverters will not synchronize unless they are "stacked" in a parallel Master/Slave configuration. AFIK, this requires identical models / firmware revisions.
The two inverters can draw from, even charge, the same battery, if it has sufficient capacity. However, their AC Outputs will have to remain independent.
2jackmans@gmail.com
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:22 pm
My RE system: Inverter: Outback power Radian GS8048, Serial No: GS1430F0100376.
Charger(2): Outback FLEXmax 80, Serial No's: FM80S33240 & FM80S33270.
Communication Manager: HUB 4 with MATE 3.
Batteries: 4ea HAWKER Power Source
Type 006085F215
6 hr capacity 850Ah
Nominal voltage 12V
Finish rate 43 amps
Specific gravity 1275-1285
Battery I.D.: PL40515783
PL40515784
PL40515785
PL40515786
Combiner: MidNite Solar Inc. MNPV12.
Load Center: Outback GS Load Center.
Generator: Kohler 20RESC 20KW

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by 2jackmans@gmail.com »

If both independent radian's (one an 8048, the other 8048A) had the same matching firmware installed their MATE's, would I then be able to connect their AC outputs together? You can tell, "I'm shooting from the hip." I sincerely appreciate your help!!!
raysun
Forum Overlord
Posts: 11032
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by raysun »

2jackmans@gmail.com wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:52 pm If both independent radian's (one an 8048, the other 8048A) had the same matching firmware installed their MATE's, would I then be able to connect their AC outputs together? You can tell, "I'm shooting from the hip." I sincerely appreciate your help!!!
The two versions 8048 and 8048A have different hardware and the firmware releases are different as well. See here: https://www.outbackpower.com/resources- ... re-updates

The two units are not compatible with stacking, AFIK.

I'd suggest talking with Outback tech support about the setup. My feeling is they will confirm what we've shared here, but they may have information we're not privy to.
saesta
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:04 pm

Re: 2 independent 8048 inverter systems sharing one set of batteries and paralleling their AC outputs..

Post by saesta »

The two versions 8048 and 8048A have different hardware and the firmware releases are different as well. See here: https://www.outbackpower.com/resources- ... re-updatesgeometry dash subzero

The two units are not compatible with stacking, AFIK.

I'd suggest talking with Outback tech support about the setup. My feeling is they will confirm what we've shared here, but they may have information we're not privy to.
I also used Outback and I felt quite satisfied with the quality and reputation.
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