Freshing charge on Enercell200NC

[Beechigby]

bat are new but not charged since manufacture in 11/18. beeing sitting waitiing for install on new home
3 banks at 48 volts in IBR
volt Delta between bats max 1.4 after some charging be solar array. this is a new install, solar and bats turned on thurs. no discharge yet thru inverter
start (1650hr) "EQ" at 57.6 for 24 hrs. see inverter push Vdc right up at 200 watts, then Vdc begins to fall, still 200 watts check Vdc 1.5 hrs later and most bats have decreased in V
At 2130 hrs Vdc was 57.1, still .2Kw. At 0700 Vdc was 57.2 inverter charging at 0, but solar taking over, still 200watts. What does this mean? should bats slowly climb back up to 57.6?
or are they compromised?

[raysun]

Most batteries "on the shelf" need charging every 6 mo. to maintain health.

Was the battery fully charged before the EQ charge applied?

[Beechigby]

No, I suppose not.
they had not got up to 57.6 for the abosrb time of 2 hr under the pv array which had been on for not 2 full days. Radian charger also was not on. Radian was on for the EQ
after starting 24 freshing charge (57.6volt/24hr) bat voltage went up a bit, but then over the time dropped some. the Delta between bats did decrease, but is still 1.2vdc on 1 bank
the bats pulled 2-300 watts thru out the 24hr

[raysun]

A "Freshening" (Equalization) charge is normally done after a full charge cycle (Bulk, Absorb) has completed.

200-300 watts sounds about right for the bank at full charge though. What full charge means on this battery is the question.

I'd follow the commissioning steps below and hope for a good outcome. Get yourself a big can of gas and fire up the generator. Solar won't do what's needed.

EnergyCell RE or EnergyCell NC

The commissioning charge applies when the batteries have been in storage or transit for an extended period. It also applies when the battery system is intended for use at the minimum float charging voltage or when the number of cells in series is greater than 24. Under any of these conditions, it is recommended the battery system be given a freshening charge at 2.4 volts average per cell for 24 hours. This will assure higher initial performance and will reduce the time period required for the cells to achieve proper voltage balance between the individual units. To apply a freshening charge: 1. Confirm the freshening (equalization) voltage from the charger/rectifier is set to a value equal to the Absorb Charging Voltage shown in Table 5 on page 21. 2. Close the circuit from the charger to the battery system and confirm that the battery accepts current. 3. Monitor the battery periodically and note that the operation is proceeding normally. Make certain that the current acceptance is declining and that the batteries are not overheating (within ±5°F or ±2.8°C of each other and the ambient temperature). Make certain that the individual battery voltages on equalization charge are 14.4 ± 0.50 Vdc for 12 volt batteries. 4. Terminate the freshening charge in the event of any extraordinary situations or after 24 hours.

[Beechigby]

that sounds like it came verbatim out of the manuel.
got it
I guess ill do a bulk with inverter/charger (during day). but since yesterday afternoon we have had major island wide grid issues.

On another note, the output breaker for my 3rd CC (MidNite KID) (which I added) has the wire going to Bat + buss going to Line side of breaker. Is that correct?

[raysun]

Yep, verbatim from the manual. That's your task.

The 24 hours mentioned is 24 continuous hours. "During day" is usually less than 24 hours unless it's the summer solstice above the arctic circle. ;)

Presumedly you are charging from the grid? Since there are grid issues, are you inverting from the battery?

Not knowing the wiring topography of the system, or the components in it, it would be difficult to answer whether any single component, like the circuit breaker mentioned is properly installed.

For instance, if the system, other than the additional charge controller, is a pre-wired FlexPower panel, and the GFDI circuit between the Outback charge controllers and the battery is expected to keep the system from placing potentially lethal voltages on the panels in the event of a ground fault, then no, the circuit breaker for the 3rd charge controller should not be wired to the battery +, it would defeat GFDI. If there's no expectation of GFDI protection, and the Outback circuit breaker that provides it is not wired into the system, then the 3rd circuit breaker likely should have the Line side wired to the battery +.

While focusing on the system, you may wish to put details of all components in your profile, it will help get you accurate answers to questions.

[Beechigby]

Yep, verbatim from the manual. That's your task.

The 24 hours mentioned is 24 continuous hours. "During day" is usually less than 24 hours unless it's the summer solstice above the arctic circle. ;)

Presumedly you are charging from the grid? Since there are grid issues, are you inverting from the battery?
Yes Charging from the grid and it was on whole time. Inverter is Radian prewired 8048 for US. System was in Bypass, so not inverting. 24 hr straight thru.

Not knowing the wiring topography of the system, or the components in it, it would be difficult to answer whether any single component, like the circuit breaker mentioned is properly installed.
The Kid PV input comes from a single 15A breaker (for 3 310w series panels) in outdoor PV combiner to a Midnite GFDI follwed by 30A breaker (both in Midnite Baby Box) then to PV in of KiD. Output to battery passes thru last Breaker (controlling flow to Bat) and is attached to Bat buss with other two CC outputs to bat buss
Is true then that the last breaker of any pv CC output should have the Line side wired toward the battery?
For instance, if the system, other than the additional charge controller, is a pre-wired FlexPower panel, and the GFDI circuit between the Outback charge controllers and the battery is expected to keep the system from placing potentially lethal voltages on the panels in the event of a ground fault, then no, the circuit breaker for the 3rd charge controller should not be wired to the battery +, it would defeat GFDI. If there's no expectation of GFDI protection, and the Outback circuit breaker that provides it is not wired into the system, then the 3rd circuit breaker likely should have the Line side wired to the battery +.

While focusing on the system, you may wish to put details of all components in your profile, it will help get you accurate answers to questions.

[raysun]

"Yes Charging from the grid and it was on whole time. Inverter is Radian prewired 8048 for US. System was in Bypass, so not inverting. 24 hr straight thru."

Most prewired Outback panels have a breaker arrangement with a mechanical bypass interlock for AC IN. Was AC power going to the inverter so the charger was active, or was the interlock raised and the breaker switched, allowing AC IN to completely bypass the inverter?

I don't quite visualize the wiring scheme for the charge controllers. Perhaps it could be illustrated in a single line wiring diagram?

[Beechigby]

I was under the impression that if the Radian AC input breaker was on the inverter could still charge the batteries, even tho the Bypass breaker was on Bypass
is that incorrect?

[raysun]

I was under the impression that if the Radian AC input breaker was on the inverter could still charge the batteries, even tho the Bypass breaker was on Bypass
is that incorrect?

The Radian, and the other Outback inverters are Inverter/Chargers. Their function depends on power input choice. If powered by battery, they invert. If powered by AC on the AC IN terminals (generator or grid) they switch to battery charging - essentially running the inverter circuitry in reverse. The AC IN is also fed to the AC OUT via an internal transfer switch.

The external mechanical bypass and the pair of breakers associated with it feed the AC IN to the inverter in normal operation. In bypass setting, the AC IN is fed directly to the AC OUT, completely bypassing the inverter. It is designed to allow the external AC power source to service the loads, while, for example, the inverter is de-energized for service.

If the intent is for the inverter to charge the battery from the grid, leave the mechanical bypass in normal mode, and USE the Grid AC IN via the Mate or OpticsRE. The switch to Grid power, and from inverter to charger, will be automatic.

Check the inverter's AC Input settings to make sure Grid profile is selected, and that the Grid Input AC limit and Charger AC Limit are properly set.

[Lewis-H]

Cycle Charging is the complete recharging of a battery after it has been fully or partially discharged during normal operations. Typically, a cycle charge is based on an 8 hour time period that recharges the battery and restores it to a fully charged condition.

[Beechigby]

well my 3 banks of Outback 200NC are having an issue. One bank (middle one in IBR) is HOT and one bat is lower much lower Vdc than others. Hot bank is accepting more currnet than other 2, I suppose in an effort to get the Vdc up. Just 3 years. perhpas I should turn of breaker for middle bank and just use the other 2
Ive had better performance with Concorde AGMS

[raysun]

well my 3 banks of Outback 200NC are having an issue. One bank (middle one in IBR) is HOT and one bat is lower much lower Vdc than others. Hot bank is accepting more currnet than other 2, I suppose in an effort to get the Vdc up. Just 3 years. perhpas I should turn of breaker for middle bank and just use the other 2
Ive had better performance with Concorde AGMS

Before converting to SimpliPhi, my battery was two strings of 200NC in an IBR3-48 rack. At 3 years one of the battery blocks failed (top string, position two), and I replaced it. About a year later, another battery block failed, (mid string, position two), and I replaced the battery.
Actually, I replaced the whole system and the buyer replaced the dead battery block. The battery limped along for another year before being replaced.
IME, the 200NC is a failure-prone design. AGMs are the shortest-lived of the Lead Acid battery family, but failures a 3 years under proper usage conditions is unacceptable.

[Beechigby]

Well, I turned all banks off and tried the Freshning charge for less than an hour, but, really, with the needy bank pulling in about 6A, just like it was doing when it got supper hot, I didnt see the point
I did discoveer that 1 bat in bottom block was headed to under 11 Vdc as well, so I pulled it oiut and replaced it with one of the 3 good (12.65Vdc) ones in the middle block . So all bats on shelf 1 and 3 are at 12.6V after being off a while. Im leaving the middle shelf off. the system is operating under minigrid, and now ill give the owner the news. I wonder if the new Enersys bat is worth replacing these with. Ill cal Ameresco and find the price. Otherwise ill see if she will go with a Fortress 18.5 Max

[raysun]

The dead soldiers are the vanguard of what's to come with the others in fairly short order. Tell her from an expert that's already been down the road she's on, that her system and her mental health will both improve dramatically when she switches to lithium.