FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

An area for discussing the OutBack FLEXnet DC product.

Moderators: OutBack Moderator Team, OutBack

Post Reply
StoneCove
Forum Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:23 pm
My RE system: OPTICSre site: Hadady/Johnson (formerly site Freundel)
Architecture: Grid Hybrid Inverter Current Flow
1x FLEXnet DC
1x FM80-150VDC (Shunt B)
1x GS8048 Inverter (Shunt A)
12x EnergyCell 200RE (3 strings of 4) - 48v system
21x SolarWorld SW 240W 60 cell Module (7 strings of 3) - 5040 W system
1x GS Load Center
1x HUB
1x Mate3s
Mate3s Firmware Versions:
001.004.007 Mate3s updated 2022Nov08
001.004.007 Ethernet
001.000.000 Hub
001.004.001 GS8048
002.001.000 FM60/80
001.001.071 FNDC
Volatage Parameters:
49.2v ReBulk Voltage
51.2v Re-Float
54.0v Sell Voltage
54.4v Float Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
54.8v Float Voltage (Charger menu)
57.2v Charged Voltage
57.6v Absorb Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
58.0v Absorb Voltage (Charger Menu)
Time Parameters:
5 min Time (MPPT menu and apparently a default I never need change)
10 min Time (Battery Setup)
3.3 hr Float Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Charger menu)

FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by StoneCove »

I’ve had this issue since I acquired a mis-parameterized installation on a home property I bought. I’ve put in the time to study the relevant documentation and have experimented/tweaked Mate3s parameters to attain what seems an optimal configuration (see right). Operation has been suitable now for a couple of seasons.

Still, the below happens all the time: though “From Battery” below is (graphically) a Solar pass-thru (in the large), SoC during harvests declines (steeply) kinda as though “From Battery” were not mostly a Solar pass-thru but instead a draw on Battery.

Anyone else having this condition, presently or past? Is there a remedy?

My reported Voltages are fine. Outback Tech Support (my thanks for their look-in and advice) suggests I just ignore my “unnecessary” FNDC SoC data — “You can stop displaying it on OPTICSre if it bothers you.”

Sure, but I’d much prefer a fairly sane SoC report than dismiss and ignore a problem read-out. (Doing the “ignore” rubs my “inner-engineer” fur exactly the wrong way.)

Thank you.
20230315 Graphic for Outback Site post.jpg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 9784
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by raysun »

My initial suspicion is a shunt feeding the FNDC is miswired.
On the OpticsRE summary screen, click the Battery tile in the left menu bar. Post a screen shot of the Shunts graph.
Also, post a screen shot of the FNDC/Battery Charging parameters.
StoneCove
Forum Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:23 pm
My RE system: OPTICSre site: Hadady/Johnson (formerly site Freundel)
Architecture: Grid Hybrid Inverter Current Flow
1x FLEXnet DC
1x FM80-150VDC (Shunt B)
1x GS8048 Inverter (Shunt A)
12x EnergyCell 200RE (3 strings of 4) - 48v system
21x SolarWorld SW 240W 60 cell Module (7 strings of 3) - 5040 W system
1x GS Load Center
1x HUB
1x Mate3s
Mate3s Firmware Versions:
001.004.007 Mate3s updated 2022Nov08
001.004.007 Ethernet
001.000.000 Hub
001.004.001 GS8048
002.001.000 FM60/80
001.001.071 FNDC
Volatage Parameters:
49.2v ReBulk Voltage
51.2v Re-Float
54.0v Sell Voltage
54.4v Float Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
54.8v Float Voltage (Charger menu)
57.2v Charged Voltage
57.6v Absorb Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
58.0v Absorb Voltage (Charger Menu)
Time Parameters:
5 min Time (MPPT menu and apparently a default I never need change)
10 min Time (Battery Setup)
3.3 hr Float Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Charger menu)

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by StoneCove »

raysun wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:30 pm My initial suspicion is a shunt feeding the FNDC is miswired.
On the OpticsRE summary screen, click the Battery tile in the left menu bar. Post a screen shot of the Shunts graph.
If by
"OpticsRE summary screen"
and
"Shunts graph"
you mean OPTICSre DASHBOARD w/Battery button pressed, here is (bottom most):
20230315 full day chart.jpg
raysun wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:30 pm Also, post a screen shot of the FNDC/Battery Charging parameters.
Here is:
FNDC Battery Charging Parameters.jpg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 9784
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by raysun »

The bottom "Battery" graph...
Slide the selector from "All" to "Shunt" and post the display for the same date as the ones above.
StoneCove
Forum Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:23 pm
My RE system: OPTICSre site: Hadady/Johnson (formerly site Freundel)
Architecture: Grid Hybrid Inverter Current Flow
1x FLEXnet DC
1x FM80-150VDC (Shunt B)
1x GS8048 Inverter (Shunt A)
12x EnergyCell 200RE (3 strings of 4) - 48v system
21x SolarWorld SW 240W 60 cell Module (7 strings of 3) - 5040 W system
1x GS Load Center
1x HUB
1x Mate3s
Mate3s Firmware Versions:
001.004.007 Mate3s updated 2022Nov08
001.004.007 Ethernet
001.000.000 Hub
001.004.001 GS8048
002.001.000 FM60/80
001.001.071 FNDC
Volatage Parameters:
49.2v ReBulk Voltage
51.2v Re-Float
54.0v Sell Voltage
54.4v Float Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
54.8v Float Voltage (Charger menu)
57.2v Charged Voltage
57.6v Absorb Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
58.0v Absorb Voltage (Charger Menu)
Time Parameters:
5 min Time (MPPT menu and apparently a default I never need change)
10 min Time (Battery Setup)
3.3 hr Float Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Charger menu)

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by StoneCove »

raysun wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:34 pm The bottom "Battery" graph...
Slide the selector from "All" to "Shunt" and post the display for the same date as the ones above.
👌🏻
Graphs I get for Shunt A, Shunt B, and Shunts A&B. [Shunt C is not in use.]
20230315 Shunts A B AB.jpg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 9784
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01 - Series Stacked, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator
Off-Grid

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by raysun »

Shunt B, intended to track current flow between the FM80 and the battery, is seriously under-reporting, it would appear.
The shunts are precision resistors in which voltage drop is proportional to current, 0-50mV:0-500A.
A likely suspect is the sense wire between the shunt and the FNDC Shunt B port is loose or damaged.
A second suspect is the FNDC Shunt B port is damaged. Shunt C port could be tried.
Another possibility is the FM80 Bat (-) lead, or the Shunt B Battery (-) are connected incorrectly. The Shunt has two "ends" Battery and Load. The Shunt to Battery (-) cable should be connected to the Battery end. It should be the only cable connected to the Battery end. The FM80 Bat (-) to Shunt cable should be connected to the Load end of the shunt.
An unlikely suspect is the shunt itself is damaged. If the resistive component is shorted, it would pass current, but the sense terminals would not see the proportional voltage drop. If the sense terminals are open/shorted, the sense voltage would be likewise low.

CAUTION: Wiring panels contain lethal voltages. Use proper precautions when working in and around the power wiring.

If you open the DC wiring panel to inspect the shunt wiring, take and post pictures. IME, shunt wiring errors are easy to make, and sometimes hard to spot.

FNDC Documentation
FLEXnet DC Battery Monitor - Outback Power https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/ ... _guide.pdf

Application Note - FLEXnet DC Programming & Guidelines https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/ ... p_note.pdf

FN-DC Field Calibration - Outback Power https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/ ... p_note.pdf

Screenshot_20230316_083011_Chrome.jpg
A typical graph of current flow in an off-grid system.
Notes:
The shunt labels can be edited via the Edit control on the graph screen.
It's not unusual for there to be minor "measurement leakage" in an enabled shunt port with no current flow. It typically shows as 0.01kWH/hour.
StoneCove
Forum Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:23 pm
My RE system: OPTICSre site: Hadady/Johnson (formerly site Freundel)
Architecture: Grid Hybrid Inverter Current Flow
1x FLEXnet DC
1x FM80-150VDC (Shunt B)
1x GS8048 Inverter (Shunt A)
12x EnergyCell 200RE (3 strings of 4) - 48v system
21x SolarWorld SW 240W 60 cell Module (7 strings of 3) - 5040 W system
1x GS Load Center
1x HUB
1x Mate3s
Mate3s Firmware Versions:
001.004.007 Mate3s updated 2022Nov08
001.004.007 Ethernet
001.000.000 Hub
001.004.001 GS8048
002.001.000 FM60/80
001.001.071 FNDC
Volatage Parameters:
49.2v ReBulk Voltage
51.2v Re-Float
54.0v Sell Voltage
54.4v Float Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
54.8v Float Voltage (Charger menu)
57.2v Charged Voltage
57.6v Absorb Voltage (Battery Charger menu)
58.0v Absorb Voltage (Charger Menu)
Time Parameters:
5 min Time (MPPT menu and apparently a default I never need change)
10 min Time (Battery Setup)
3.3 hr Float Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Battery Charger menu)
2.0 hr Absorb Time (Charger menu)

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by StoneCove »

Thank you, raysun, for your analysis and advice.
fcwlp
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1163
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed.

I install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems in my area and consult on solar system design/operation.
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: FNDC chronically reports faux SoC Decline during solar harvests

Post by fcwlp »

To the right of your shunt A, B, C you will see an edit link. Click on it and give your shunts some real names.
Post Reply