Loss of power between solar and inverter

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dude8604
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Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by dude8604 »

I have a grid tied GS4048A with 3.6kW of solar panels. I'm seeing a decent amount of power loss between the solar charge controller and the inverter and I can't figure out why. For example, in the image, 0.36kW is unaccounted for. I guess some could be going to the batteries, but this happens even when the battery is at 100% I have the charging settings according to the battery manufacturer's instructions. I'm posting images of what I think are the relevant settings, but please tell me if there's anything else you need to see. Thanks for your help!
Screenshot 2023-01-19 115850.jpg
Screenshot 2023-01-19 121041.jpg
Screenshot 2023-01-19 121144.jpg
dude8604
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My RE system: Outback Radian GS4048A Inverter Charger
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by dude8604 »

More settings
Screenshot 2023-01-19 121228.jpg
Screenshot 2023-01-19 121328.jpg
Another image showing power loss at 100% battery
Screenshot 2023-01-19 122205.jpg
raysun
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by raysun »

dude8604 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:19 pm
Another image showing power loss at 100% battery

What kind of battery?
How old?
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Mike Curran
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Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by Mike Curran »

I don't have a screenshot to share but I often see the same thing with my Rolls battery system. It's a huge, 15 year old battery and even after charge parameters are met, 100% SOC and selling to grid, there's still 3-400 watts going into the battery to keep it at the sell setpoint (pretty close to float, actually). I'll post an Optics power flow screenshot next time I see it, gotta catch it on a sunny mid-day.
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
fcwlp
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by fcwlp »

Since you have a FNDC a more accurate measure is to put your cursor over the battery which shows what the shunts are measuring in and out if you have at least two shunts.
dude8604
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by dude8604 »

fcwlp wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:42 pm Since you have a FNDC a more accurate measure is to put your cursor over the battery which shows what the shunts are measuring in and out if you have at least two shunts.
I do have two shunts, but where do I find what voltage to multiply to get the wattage?
dude8604
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by dude8604 »

Mike Curran wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:24 pm I don't have a screenshot to share but I often see the same thing with my Rolls battery system. It's a huge, 15 year old battery and even after charge parameters are met, 100% SOC and selling to grid, there's still 3-400 watts going into the battery to keep it at the sell setpoint (pretty close to float, actually). I'll post an Optics power flow screenshot next time I see it, gotta catch it on a sunny mid-day.
My batteries were replaced about two years ago.
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

dude8604 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:34 pm
Mike Curran wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:24 pm I don't have a screenshot to share but I often see the same thing with my Rolls battery system. It's a huge, 15 year old battery and even after charge parameters are met, 100% SOC and selling to grid, there's still 3-400 watts going into the battery to keep it at the sell setpoint (pretty close to float, actually). I'll post an Optics power flow screenshot next time I see it, gotta catch it on a sunny mid-day.
My batteries were replaced about two years ago.
What type of battery is? model?
need to check the maximum charging current for the battery and have global charge enabled if necessary.
acid batteries will continue to draw power once they are considered charged.

edit: from the charging parameter looks like is a flooded Lead acid battery. might need to set the global charge to 48A. check the battery setting from manufacturer.
dude8604
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My RE system: Outback Radian GS4048A Inverter Charger
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by dude8604 »

EA6LE-ONE wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:38 am
dude8604 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:34 pm
Mike Curran wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:24 pm I don't have a screenshot to share but I often see the same thing with my Rolls battery system. It's a huge, 15 year old battery and even after charge parameters are met, 100% SOC and selling to grid, there's still 3-400 watts going into the battery to keep it at the sell setpoint (pretty close to float, actually). I'll post an Optics power flow screenshot next time I see it, gotta catch it on a sunny mid-day.
My batteries were replaced about two years ago.
What type of battery is? model?
need to check the maximum charging current for the battery and have global charge enabled if necessary.
acid batteries will continue to draw power once they are considered charged.

edit: from the charging parameter looks like is a flooded Lead acid battery. might need to set the global charge to 48A. check the battery setting from manufacturer.
These are the batteries: https://invertersrus.com/product/lifeline-gpl8dl/
I have 4 of them wired in series.
The technical manual says the maximum charge current is 5C, which would be 1275A, but that seems really high.
Here is the technical manual: https://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-conten ... -06-19.pdf
Also, in the event log it looks like it's only doing bulk charging, it never says Absorb or Float charging. Is that a problem?
raysun
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REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
2 Midnite Solar MNPV6 combiners w/20A DC disconnects.
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Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by raysun »

These are the batteries: https://invertersrus.com/product/lifeline-gpl8dl/
I have 4 of them wired in series.
A little battery math:
48V @ 225AH = 10.8kWH total energy capacity
50% usable (50 Depth of Discharge) = 112.5AH or 5.4kWH.
The battery has sufficient capacity for a "grid backup" role. It would support about a 500W average load for 10 hours before needing recharging.
The technical manual says the maximum charge current is 5C, which would be 1275A, but that seems really high.
The modern AGM battery cells have very low internal impedance, and can tolerate high charge currents. I would think charging at 5C would be excessive, however. The charger in the GS4048A at maximum will put out roughly 55A charge current. The FM80 has a maximum output of 80A but will peak at less than that with the specified array.
Both chargers, combine for less than 135A charging current and would appear safe for the battery during Bulk.
Also, in the event log it looks like it's only doing bulk charging, it never says Absorb or Float charging. Is that a problem?
It would appear the battery is not being fully charged. The battery should be fully charged at least once a week. Keeping a Lead Acid battery at or near full charge is best for maximum service life.

Try manually initiating a Bulk charge using the Radian. From OpticsRE:
Screenshot_20230120-070306.jpg
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I install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems in my area and consult on solar system design/operation.
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by fcwlp »

dude8604 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:33 pm I do have two shunts, but where do I find what voltage to multiply to get the wattage?
Use the voltage that shows right below the battery symbol in OpticsRE.
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Mike Curran
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Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof (2007/2017):
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Loss of power between solar and inverter

Post by Mike Curran »

This screenshot shows 140 watts going to the battery to maintain voltage at the sell setpoint, 27.2 volts (now showing 27.1 volts), with SOC = 100%. Not unusual.
Battery charging power @ 100% SOC.JPG
First sunny day in awhile.

Edit: View suggested by fcwlp. Note +600 watts to battery
Screenshot_20230124_131614_Samsung Internet.jpg
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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