Help with outback system.

Discussion about the MX60 Charge Controller

Moderators: OutBack Moderator Team, OutBack

Post Reply
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

I have 3 brute force 8 d agms, for a total of 750 amp hours. Per manufacturer's specs, charge settings are as follows: absorb, 14.4 volts, float 13.5, rebulk, 12.7 current limit (not listed under manufacturers specs, 80 amps. Wondering if these setting seem correct. Oh, and the mate never says the charger is on float mode, even though the batteries become fully charged.
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2271
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Mike Curran »

Please fill in your system profile so we know what all equipment you have. Not to toot my own horn but see my profile as an example.

Your settings seem reasonable, but what is meant by "current limit"?
Oh, and the mate never says the charger is on float mode, even though the batteries become fully charged.
How do you know the batteries are fully charged?
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4540
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by raysun »

Pimpylardo wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:55 am I have 3 brute force 8 d agms, for a total of 750 amp hours. Per manufacturer's specs, charge settings are as follows: absorb, 14.4 volts, float 13.5, rebulk, 12.7 current limit (not listed under manufacturers specs, 80 amps. Wondering if these setting seem correct. Oh, and the mate never says the charger is on float mode, even though the batteries become fully charged.
A typical lead acid battery can accept a charge rate of 10 - 13%. AGM batteries typically can accept charge rates as high as 30%.

If the minimum lead acid charge rate were used, the battery would want a sustained constant current (Bulk) charge rate of 75 Amps, though 200 Amps would be more expeditious.

The FM80 can handle 960 Watts of array power for charging a 12 Volt battery. The 12V @ 750AH battery is roughly 9000W of capacity. If discharged 50%, it would take 6 hours at full output for the FM80 to recharge the battery fully.

Unless it is very lightly discharged, its likely the battery is not getting fully charged as often as it should.

What is Absorb Time set to on the FM80?
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

I have the absorb time set to 6 hours. I could tell the batteries were fully charged because i could watch the amps in go down to zero as the voltage hit the limit at 14.4.
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

I have the absorb time set to 6 hours. I could tell the batteries were fully charged because i could watch the amps in go down to zero as the voltage hit the limit at 14.4.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4540
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by raysun »

Pimpylardo wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:35 pm I have the absorb time set to 6 hours. I could tell the batteries were fully charged because i could watch the amps in go down to zero as the voltage hit the limit at 14.4.
That's an exceptionally long Absorb Time for AGM. Was that specified by the manufacturer?

How is battery charginf amperage being measured? I've never seen any lead acid battery reach 0 amps, there's always leakage current, even in AGM.
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

0 amps was the current going in according to my mate2
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

Of course, i cant find the absorb time from the manufacturer, and well, i guess these days a simple phone call is out of the question.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4540
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by raysun »

Pimpylardo wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:12 pm 0 amps was the current going in according to my mate2
How does the Mate2 read amps?

I know with the Mate3, it only reads battery voltage without the using the Flexnet DC battery monitor.

Is this the Mate2 reporting readings from the FM80 charge controller?
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

I mean its a mate 3.
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

Nevermind. I can see this is useless. What a waste of money. Ill be going back to my renogy controller and inverter. At least i can use them.
Pimpylardo
Forum Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:44 am
My RE system: Inverter/charger flex mate 80 mate 2

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by Pimpylardo »

Nevermind. This was all a waste of money. Ill be going back to my renogy system that i could actually use. "Committed to customer service", but too lazy to answer a phone call? Doesn't really sound like much of a commitment now does it?
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4540
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Help with outback system.

Post by raysun »

Pimpylardo wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:46 pm Nevermind. This was all a waste of money. Ill be going back to my renogy system that i could actually use. "Committed to customer service", but too lazy to answer a phone call? Doesn't really sound like much of a commitment now does it?
I can understand being frustrated with equipment with which one is not familiar, but hang in there a bit longer and things will sort out.

We can only know about your system from what you tell us, hence the questions and suppositions.

The picture is becoming a bit clearer with identification of the components.

What we know so far:
FlexMax 80 charge controller
Mate3/(3s) system monitor and controller
An unidentified inverter. Which inverter is being used?

I assume if the inverter is a Outback unit, then there is also a Hub communication manager that all three pieces of equipment plug into. Possibly the 4-port unit. Is this correct?

Assessing state of charge on AGM batteries is tricky, as the traditional method of measuring lead-acid electrolyte is not available. That leaves two external methods: voltage readings or counting accumulated net current.

Voltage readings have a major shortcoming as they only correlate directly to state of charge when the battery is in an open circuit, and the voltages are only accurate after the battery has been at rest for an extended period. Most batteries in deep cycle service on an inverter power system can be disconnected for the length of time it takes to get accurate readings.

That leaves "coloumb counting", tracking the net current flowing into and out of the battery to determine state of charge. This method is a bit complex "under the covers", but quality battery monitors like the Outback Flexnet DC, or the Victron BMV7xx series do a good job when configured properly.

The FNDC is the more expensive of the two, but integrates seamlessly with the other Outback equipment, permits a sophisticated view into battery performance, and enables advanced battery charging functions that materially improve AGM battery service life.

Whichever monitor is chosen, it will be an essential component in effective battery management, and go a very long way toward answering questions about battery state of charge and subsequent health.
Post Reply