Determining the correct settings for my system?

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sbrownian
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by sbrownian »

jtzako wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:29 am
sbrownian wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:16 am Are voltage readings across the individual mono blocks pretty much even?
When I checked them before changing the absorb/float settings they where all between 6.27 and 6.42 volts.
While you were charging them? They need to reach over 7 volts when being charged... (See previous posts..)
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:28 am OK.

Try the higher Absorb settings and run a charge cycle.

Let us know how it goes.
Ok, Its been a few days at the higher absorb/float settings. Today the generator started via AGS at about 6am, charged up to 58.4v (on the FX) and completed a 2hr absorb. Then about an hour after it finished the absorb (and shut down) I tested with the Hydro Volt and it came up with 1.160 which is just barely above red but is higher than I had previously tested with the old tester.

I then ran a 1hr EQ @ 62V (start generator manually then engage EQ mode on the FX and CC) and when that completed it was up to 1.220.

Would it be beneficial to maybe do another EQ or perhaps for longer than an hour? (the only problem with EQing is the HS gets pretty strong but I kept all the nearby windows open w/ a fan blowing out.)

Here are some shots of the Mate/CC screens after the EQ finished (and after I did the water testing): https://imgur.com/a/cxmCfVO

Also, are there any other settings I might want to look at to make sure things are set right?
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by raysun »

jtzako wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:45 am
raysun wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:28 am OK.

Try the higher Absorb settings and run a charge cycle.

Let us know how it goes.
Ok, Its been a few days at the higher absorb/float settings. Today the generator started via AGS at about 6am, charged up to 58.4v (on the FX) and completed a 2hr absorb. Then about an hour after it finished the absorb (and shut down) I tested with the Hydro Volt and it came up with 1.160 which is just barely above red but is higher than I had previously tested with the old tester.

I then ran a 1hr EQ @ 62V (start generator manually then engage EQ mode on the FX and CC) and when that completed it was up to 1.220.

Would it be beneficial to maybe do another EQ or perhaps for longer than an hour? (the only problem with EQing is the HS gets pretty strong but I kept all the nearby windows open w/ a fan blowing out.)

Here are some shots of the Mate/CC screens after the EQ finished (and after I did the water testing): https://imgur.com/a/cxmCfVO

Also, are there any other settings I might want to look at to make sure things are set right?
That's a pretty strong indication of advanced lead sulfate buildup in the battery, commonly caused by chronic undercharging.

A full EQ cycle may reverse some of the capacity loss. It won't bring the battery back fully, but may help.

Full EQ will not be measured by time, rather by reaching a point where the slow rise in specific gravity in every cell stops. The more precise Hydrovolt will help determine that termination point.

To carry out (what is likely to be a very extended) EQ cycle:

Check each cell for water level. It should cover the plates, but not much higher. Water will "boil" vigorously during EQ. Tighten all caps.

Measure and note the SG of each cell.

Every hour, stop EQ.
- Measure and note SG for each cell. Compare with the prior reading to determine that SG is rising in any cell.

- Check water, replacing only in those cells where plates may be exposed.

If SG is still increasing in any cell, run EQ for another hour. When an hour has concluded with no cells' SG increasing, EQ is complete.

During the EQ cycle, keep an eye on battery temperature. If it rises above 110°F, stop EQ and allow the battery to cool.

Keep ventilation going to minimize the risk of explosive hydrogen gas buildup.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by provo »

jtzako wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:45 am
Ok, Its been a few days at the higher absorb/float settings. Today the generator started via AGS at about 6am, charged up to 58.4v (on the FX) and completed a 2hr absorb.
I have a 24V pack of Rolls batteries, and Rolls recommends 30V absorbs -- that's 60V for you. I absorb daily, and often for 3h. I keep an eye on the return amps also, and will cut the absorb short if it's getting close to 1% of the Ah capacity.

With FLA's, undercharging and sulfation are MUCH more of a worry than overcharging and positive plate corrosion.
sbrownian
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MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by sbrownian »

Make sure you use DISTILLED water for makeup.
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by jtzako »

sbrownian wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:35 pm Make sure you use DISTILLED water for makeup.
I picked up about 10 gallons of distilled water to stockpile. I topped off the water about 3 weeks ago and it still looks ok. I'll keep an eye on it when I can attempt some extended EQ. (was too cold today to do more than an hour since I had to leave a bunch of basement windows open to vent. The aux vent fan isnt really enough for EQing, it works fine for normal charging)
jtzako
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:32 pm
To carry out (what is likely to be a very extended) EQ cycle:

Check each cell for water level. It should cover the plates, but not much higher. Water will "boil" vigorously during EQ. Tighten all caps.

Measure and note the SG of each cell.

Every hour, stop EQ.
- Measure and note SG for each cell. Compare with the prior reading to determine that SG is rising in any cell.

- Check water, replacing only in those cells where plates may be exposed.

If SG is still increasing in any cell, run EQ for another hour. When an hour has concluded with no cells' SG increasing, EQ is complete.

During the EQ cycle, keep an eye on battery temperature. If it rises above 110°F, stop EQ and allow the battery to cool.

Keep ventilation going to minimize the risk of explosive hydrogen gas buildup.
I ran two more EQ cycles today. After the first one several of the batteries where in the lower green on the Hydro volt. The others where nearly there. It took quite a while to get up to the 62V EQ charge also, I think it ran for about 2.5 hrs including the time it took to get from normal full charge to EQ.

The 2nd EQ cycle I let run for about 1.5 hours and it only got up to 60.4 V. It was still climbing very slowly but the HS was exceeding the venting capability so I had to end the EQ. (I need to rebuild the battery enclosure. It isnt well sealed at the top and the vent is in the side rather than the top) After this 2nd, shorter, run all of the batteries made it into the green.

In both runs the hottest I saw the batteries get on my laser thermometer was 95F.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by raysun »

jtzako wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:27 pm
raysun wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:32 pm
To carry out (what is likely to be a very extended) EQ cycle:

Check each cell for water level. It should cover the plates, but not much higher. Water will "boil" vigorously during EQ. Tighten all caps.

Measure and note the SG of each cell.

Every hour, stop EQ.
- Measure and note SG for each cell. Compare with the prior reading to determine that SG is rising in any cell.

- Check water, replacing only in those cells where plates may be exposed.

If SG is still increasing in any cell, run EQ for another hour. When an hour has concluded with no cells' SG increasing, EQ is complete.

During the EQ cycle, keep an eye on battery temperature. If it rises above 110°F, stop EQ and allow the battery to cool.

Keep ventilation going to minimize the risk of explosive hydrogen gas buildup.
I ran two more EQ cycles today. After the first one several of the batteries where in the lower green on the Hydro volt. The others where nearly there. It took quite a while to get up to the 62V EQ charge also, I think it ran for about 2.5 hrs including the time it took to get from normal full charge to EQ.

The 2nd EQ cycle I let run for about 1.5 hours and it only got up to 60.4 V. It was still climbing very slowly but the HS was exceeding the venting capability so I had to end the EQ. (I need to rebuild the battery enclosure. It isnt well sealed at the top and the vent is in the side rather than the top) After this 2nd, shorter, run all of the batteries made it into the green.

In both runs the hottest I saw the batteries get on my laser thermometer was 95F.
That's hopeful progress!

The second run not achieving EQ voltage implies to me that there are structural changes in the Lead Sufate <-> Lead + Sulfuric Acid reaction constituents.

I'd continue with a daily full charge cycle, followed by an EQ phase. Eventually, the EQ voltage and reaction will stabilize.

I wouldn't be suprised for EQ to take 8 - 24 hours to achieve a steady SG in all cells. Taken over many charge cycles, it may take even longer. As long as its showing improvement in all cells SG readings, its on the right track.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by JRHill »

When you can get the SGs that will tell you where you are at. Be ready to grit your teeth. These are nice batteries.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:06 pm
That's hopeful progress!

The second run not achieving EQ voltage implies to me that there are structural changes in the Lead Sufate <-> Lead + Sulfuric Acid reaction constituents.

I'd continue with a daily full charge cycle, followed by an EQ phase. Eventually, the EQ voltage and reaction will stabilize.

I wouldn't be suprised for EQ to take 8 - 24 hours to achieve a steady SG in all cells. Taken over many charge cycles, it may take even longer. As long as its showing improvement in all cells SG readings, its on the right track.
I ran another EQ cycle today. It still had trouble getting up to EQ voltage. I also noticed that after a couple of hours (give or take) the Mate said "Silent" instead of Equalizing and had 0.000 watts on there when the generator was still running and the charge voltage had gone down to 51.x. Is there some kind of time limit that might have caused it to stop on its own? I think the CC screen still showed EQ-MPPT but either the FX or CC stopped the process.

I'm not sure exactly how long it was on "Silent" (less than an hour but beyond that not certain). After I shut the generator down and stopped the EQ cycles I checked the SG again. The lowest was 1.24 and highest 1.26 but all are in the green now.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by JRHill »

jtzako wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:24 pm
raysun wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:06 pm
That's hopeful progress!

The second run not achieving EQ voltage implies to me that there are structural changes in the Lead Sufate <-> Lead + Sulfuric Acid reaction constituents.

I'd continue with a daily full charge cycle, followed by an EQ phase. Eventually, the EQ voltage and reaction will stabilize.

I wouldn't be suprised for EQ to take 8 - 24 hours to achieve a steady SG in all cells. Taken over many charge cycles, it may take even longer. As long as its showing improvement in all cells SG readings, its on the right track.
I ran another EQ cycle today. It still had trouble getting up to EQ voltage. I also noticed that after a couple of hours (give or take) the Mate said "Silent" instead of Equalizing and had 0.000 watts on there when the generator was still running and the charge voltage had gone down to 51.x. Is there some kind of time limit that might have caused it to stop on its own? I think the CC screen still showed EQ-MPPT but either the FX or CC stopped the process.

I'm not sure exactly how long it was on "Silent" (less than an hour but beyond that not certain). After I shut the generator down and stopped the EQ cycles I checked the SG again. The lowest was 1.24 and highest 1.26 but all are in the green now.
You should take some sample SGs through EQ the process if not all of them. Rinse the tester out each time and save out the rinse in an inert container - that's good battery water. If you had taken them before you'd know which batteries were higher and which were lower. You do have them numbered, yes? You'd check the higher ones and you'd check the lower ones. You'd compare that with previous readings. Why? You'd want to see the lower ones coming up and the upper ones stabilizing. You want the lower ones to come up and stabilize as well. Then when all is done and the batteries rest a bit (an hour) you check all the SGs again. Now you know where they are at. Yup, its a PITB but that's how its done. If you don't do this then just buy new battery banks at the intervals that they don't work anymore.

BTW, with a bulb hydrometer, lightly flick it with your finger or spin it lightly. That will give you much better readings.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by jtzako »

JRHill wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:10 pm
You should take some sample SGs through EQ the process if not all of them. Rinse the tester out each time and save out the rinse in an inert container - that's good battery water. If you had taken them before you'd know which batteries were higher and which were lower. You do have them numbered, yes? You'd check the higher ones and you'd check the lower ones. You'd compare that with previous readings. Why? You'd want to see the lower ones coming up and the upper ones stabilizing. You want the lower ones to come up and stabilize as well. Then when all is done and the batteries rest a bit (an hour) you check all the SGs again. Now you know where they are at. Yup, its a PITB but that's how its done. If you don't do this then just buy new battery banks at the intervals that they don't work anymore.

BTW, with a bulb hydrometer, lightly flick it with your finger or spin it lightly. That will give you much better readings.
I'm not sure how much of this you have been following.. I am trying to recover an abused battery bank after recently purchasing this house. I am taking SG readings with the Hydro Volt tester. So far all cells are still improving. I will continue full charge then EQ cycles as needed until they settle. So far they have improved from somewhere around 1.120 to varying between 1.240 to 1.260 (after EQ and rest period). During the EQ the numbers tend to be on the rise but none have stabilized as of yet.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by raysun »

I have my charge termination set up such that 56.4V peak is held for 60 seconds, and no more.

Blink, and you miss it.
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Re: Determining the correct settings for my system?

Post by JRHill »

My apologies. No, I didn't go clear back to the beginning. It sounds like you know what you are doing. I hope you can get the batteries to a usable place. I'm sure you will let us know how it works out for you.

Best, JRH.
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