SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

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sodamo
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

raysun wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:43 pm
sodamo wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:34 pm Gen kwh / From Battery Kwh = 1.8% from that 13 month OptcsRE report I pulled. Just a quickie check.
Yea, I need to get me 14kW of PV panels.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
And 6 more SimpliPhis 😁
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:29 pm
raysun wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:43 pm
sodamo wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:34 pm Gen kwh / From Battery Kwh = 1.8% from that 13 month OptcsRE report I pulled. Just a quickie check.
Yea, I need to get me 14kW of PV panels.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
And 6 more SimpliPhis 😁
That too!
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

12/16

60 day battery check. Charged to 56.4V
Took the battery off line, checked torque and individual voltages after being at rest for 3 hours. (Open circuit at each monoblock.)

3 hour idle
T1. 53.70
T2. 53.69
M1. 53.56
M2. 53.65
B1. 53.62
B2. 53.59

Battery 53.63

I sent these data to SimpliPhi tech support asking if the voltages were within tolerance, and they replied with a clean bill of health.

Good so far!
sodamo
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Excellent sir
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
KeithBriggs
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

Leaving my system up, I thought I wait until charged, flip 2 (of 6) battery breakers and disconnect one of the leads on each, then wait 3 hours and test them and bring them back online when the system is 100%. Do the next 2 batteries the next day and the last 2 batteries the 3rd day. IYHO, would that work?
gtarolli
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

That's what I was thinking of doing as well. I suspect I have one bad battery or one bad battery connection. If I find one bad pair, then I can test each one individually using the same method.
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

KeithBriggs wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:26 am Leaving my system up, I thought I wait until charged, flip 2 (of 6) battery breakers and disconnect one of the leads on each, then wait 3 hours and test them and bring them back online when the system is 100%. Do the next 2 batteries the next day and the last 2 batteries the 3rd day. IYHO, would that work?
Sure, as long as all battery blocks are recombined at the same state of charge.

The 3 hour "rest" may bleed off a small charge, so its something to keep an eye on.

If in doubt, "freshen" the charge after the two test blocks are reconnected to the battery.
raysun
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REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

gtarolli wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:30 am That's what I was thinking of doing as well. I suspect I have one bad battery or one bad battery connection. If I find one bad pair, then I can test each one individually using the same method.
It will be interesting to see the test results.

Though static "full charge" testing may not tell the whole story. It may take a discharge test to find a deficient cell, or issue with a block.
raysun
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Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

Screenshot_20210105-170222_Chrome.jpg
After tracking every electron into and out of my failing battery for 6 months, oh so delicately balancing consumption with capacity, its nice to just glance at Optics and go: "Whatever. Its all good."

😃
sodamo
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36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

I share your joy.
After having to run generator every night regardless of sun, this is nirvana.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
JRHill
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

Just 18 more days and the sun will be (mostly) above the trees at the top of the canyon. Maybe then I can apply what I've learned from you guys and begin setting the FM80 to do some work for about 4 hours this time of the year. I look at the % of charge time attributed to your generators. Sigh....
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sbrownian »

From late Nov to mid Feb, 100% gen.

Late April to early Oct, almost 0% gen...

8400' rock almost due south..
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
KeithBriggs
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

Houston, we do have a problem.

Twice in the last 2 weeks, I've connected to the grid. So this time I simply clicked on the battery button on the dashboard and tallied up the net battery starting at 5PM until I connected to the grid.

Last night it worked out to 13.46 kwh before connecting. On 1/2/21 it was 13.46 kwh. I have 6 3.4s that used to give me (3.4 x 0.8 x 6) 16.32 kwh so I have lost about 17.5% capacity in less than 3 years or about 6% per year.

Just before dawn when the FM80s had just started to try to wake up and while on the grid. I flipped off all but one breaker on the batteries. 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 off, read 1, 2 on, 1 off, read 2, 3 on, 2 off, read 3, etc. Every one of them was 50.5 per the mate. I would have preferred one of them be off/bad.

Put another way, my 3.4's are now 2.8's (3.4 x (1-0.175))

I will call them today and praying it goes well.
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

KeithBriggs wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:27 am Houston, we do have a problem.

Twice in the last 2 weeks, I've connected to the grid. So this time I simply clicked on the battery button on the dashboard and tallied up the net battery starting at 5PM until I connected to the grid.

Last night it worked out to 13.46 kwh before connecting. On 1/2/21 it was 13.46 kwh. I have 6 3.4s that used to give me (3.4 x 0.8 x 6) 16.32 kwh so I have lost about 17.5% capacity in less than 3 years or about 6% per year.

Just before dawn when the FM80s had just started to try to wake up and while on the grid. I flipped off all but one breaker on the batteries. 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 off, read 1, 2 on, 1 off, read 2, 3 on, 2 off, read 3, etc. Every one of them was 50.5 per the mate. I would have preferred one of them be off/bad.

Put another way, my 3.4's are now 2.8's (3.4 x (1-0.175))

I will call them today and praying it goes well.
Sorry to hear about this issue with the Phi 3.4 battery. You are not alone in reporting this.

It seems important enough to track in a separate post, rather than buried in a post about charging the Phi 3.8.

Would you be willing to create another post on this?
gtarolli
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

I have a similar issue, but I noticed the loss in capacity just occurred about after 2.5 yrs. I look at my voltage when SOC reads 50% or so the day after a full charge. It used to be 52.4v plus or minus a little (early morn, minimal loads), now it is 52v. The drop of .4v is huge with these batteries in this range, probably about 15% or so. Since the loss was rather sudden, I am hoping it is a bad connection, I have 6 batteries , each set of 3 batteries going to a block and then two blocks are connected with a manual connection (not sure what hardware was used) into one big fat wire going to the Radian terminal. The installer knows about cable lengths and wire gauges required for the amps.
KeithBriggs
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

gtar's issue is what got me looking at before albeit incorrectly at first. Happy to start a new thread with it.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

sodamo wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:52 pm I share your joy.
After having to run generator every night regardless of sun, this is nirvana.
I got up to 54.6 on solar. I was gunning for it - com'on, com'on you can do it!!! Float, float! Ah, the solar amps started to decline and so did the voltage. Still pumping 20 amps into them but the voltage was decreasing. Sigh.

I am awaiting my nirvana moment. Maybe next week.
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:21 pm
sodamo wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:52 pm I share your joy.
After having to run generator every night regardless of sun, this is nirvana.
I got up to 54.6 on solar. I was gunning for it - com'on, com'on you can do it!!! Float, float! Ah, the solar amps started to decline and so did the voltage. Still pumping 20 amps into them but the voltage was decreasing. Sigh.

I am awaiting my nirvana moment. Maybe next week.
LOL! Spring is just 6 weeks away.
KeithBriggs
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

On the other thread I shared a link about batteries I'm considering for my CO install: https://arklithium.com/products/

What is insightful in that link besides what appears to be a nice BMS in them are the graphs. I have not combed over Phi's so maybe the similar ones there. The non-linear v vs SOC is interesting. The DoD vs cycle life is very helpful. I had gotten the impression that you could not improve longevity by going less than 80% or a use it or lose it attitude. Its not a flattering graph but it shows capacity loss over a 10000 cycle (27.3 years) life with a 50 80 and 100% DoD. Sometimes I got the impression that LFP were invincible.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

KeithBriggs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:36 am On the other thread I shared a link about batteries I'm considering for my CO install: https://arklithium.com/products/

What is insightful in that link besides what appears to be a nice BMS in them are the graphs. I have not combed over Phi's so maybe the similar ones there. The non-linear v vs SOC is interesting. The DoD vs cycle life is very helpful. I had gotten the impression that you could not improve longevity by going less than 80% or a use it or lose it attitude. Its not a flattering graph but it shows capacity loss over a 10000 cycle (27.3 years) life with a 50 80 and 100% DoD. Sometimes I got the impression that LFP were invincible.
The picture on their home page, whoa. 126 panels!?! And under that enough split and densely stacked firewood to last the rest of my life. And our heat comes 100% from wood. I'm not sure if the roof or the wood was more impressive.

Regarding the graphs I noticed that they assumed starting the discharge from 100 full. I'm really only familiar with the PHIs but my use is in the <50% DOD range and I have only filled them up to 100% a few times. My daily cycle is to charge them to 80 - 90% and discharge them to somewhere just below 50%. And I don't really know the true DOD as the FNDC has 'normalized', if I can call it that, on my standard usage pattern.

I have avoided 100% charges as I think that is a contribution to shortened life but not as bad drawing them too low. So I stay in the mid range since our usage is so low. I have 12 years on learning experience with FLA batteries but not even 12 weeks with the PHIs. I have a lot to learn obviously.
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

KeithBriggs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:36 am On the other thread I shared a link about batteries I'm considering for my CO install: https://arklithium.com/products/

What is insightful in that link besides what appears to be a nice BMS in them are the graphs. I have not combed over Phi's so maybe the similar ones there. The non-linear v vs SOC is interesting. The DoD vs cycle life is very helpful. I had gotten the impression that you could not improve longevity by going less than 80% or a use it or lose it attitude. Its not a flattering graph but it shows capacity loss over a 10000 cycle (27.3 years) life with a 50 80 and 100% DoD. Sometimes I got the impression that LFP were invincible.
Sorry guys, I fail to see what this has to do with charging SimpliPhi batteries. Can you explain the connection, or perhaps create a different post for this subject?
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

MrHill, remember that 100% isn't really 100% its the high voltage that starts a usable cycle (of draining). Typically a cycle in our world is a day but wouldn't have to be. I still use about 3 cords for my two stoves. One year I sold 16 cords (when full time in Colorado but I'm down to selling 4 cords to 2 elderly clients but that's for a different FORUM. I used to be worried about rocketing up to 100% but again its not 100. I wouldn't worry about not get to 100% but I could be wrong, maybe that dense packing only happens when closer to 100% but then again maybe the packing happens all along the way. From that aggregate EV data, there's only a 2% long term benefit to charging a car at 1500w rate vs 6000w and there's a considerable degradation with CD fast (not sure how fast that is but never will charge with that anyway. I run all my big loads in the middle of the day so the charge controllers are doing the work so the batteries are not charging as fast in the middle of the day OR draining faster at other times of the day.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

I will comply and contribute on a different thread.

I thought this could be correlated to techniques of charging PHIs, their charging curve and how I approached it - much based upon this thread. I don't have the ability to move stuff around. If I could, I would.

Granted, this thread is getting long. The search tool is still lacking and finding info here is a needle in the haystack.

Mr. Keith, lets do as suggested and create another thread for comparing this stuff.

Best,
Jim
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

From Phi 3.4 48v 2.75 years old running at 82.5% capacity:

Well, I copied over the top of my copy. It's gone. Sigh. Never mind.
raysun
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

20210123_150003.jpg
Float at 53.1V
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