SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:01 pm 20210123_150003.jpg
Float at 53.1V
Aren't they cool? Why would we spend 2 to 4x on these batteries?
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:30 pm
raysun wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:01 pm 20210123_150003.jpg
Float at 53.1V
Aren't they cool? Why would we spend 2 to 4x on these batteries?
I like how well they "Dial in".
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

20210124_173058.jpg
Battery SoC after 5 hours of Float at 53.1V
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Think I’m liking these settings
2F4ECAA9-9BF5-487A-9B68-5CF8C38DBFBB.jpeg
6BF064E9-9942-48F6-8507-69D4B18CA9A1.jpeg
Yesterday was a non sunny day here on Hawaii, likely so in most of Hawaii. We only generated 6.3 kwh of PV for the day. Was tempted to do a manual generator run, but curious as to how system behaves low end
14D3C4A1-66F9-4038-A7AB-92D5F0A4A1F4.png
Currently 25% SOC but 51.7v, so tempted to let it go and watch. AGS is set for 2 hour @ 50.8 and 2 min @ 50.4.

These current settings when I make 100%/CPM, I kiss 56.1v for about 10-12 minutes, but Optics may only show 99%.

ETA: This morning, life per usual as for loads, coffee maker, microwave, everything as usual. Not attempting false conservation.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

Nice! The only weird thing I saw is your charged voltage is 54v the same as your float and over 2v lower than absorb. The recommendation is .4v lower than absorb, so that you don't easily trigger CPM on the "way up" to absorb.

p.s. some pretty bad PV days over here on Kauai also, I may run out of generator gas if this keeps up :-( and have to make a special trip to the gas station. I only keep 10 gallons on hand.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

The south end of Hawaii Island has experienced epic rain in the past 4 days. (OK not Kauai rain, but we live in a desert here.) Its been tough on PV harvest.

Also exploring the nether world of SoC.
Screenshot_20210126-083221_Chrome.jpg
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

I think we've had close to 12" rain in the last few days, about 4" per day. And I was worried about my catchment tank :-) I may not get to test out the new 56.v absorb setting for a while - they say give it a few weeks to make a difference, but I'm not sure I will reach the Float stage much this week.

On a side note - I have a Honda EM5000 gen 240v that when under a decent load ups the voltage to 134v, not good. yesterday I played with the settings, if I limit the AC input to 16 amps, it keeps it below 2.1kw and the voltage is 129v to 130v which seems almost tolerable. I ran it (through the Radian), it supplied the loads (approx 1kw) and and charger (about 1kw), and I ran my EU3000 also for 1.8kw of charging. I need to call the Honda dealer here and complain about the high voltage, but at least I know how to keep it within limits (the lower the AC input amps, the lower the Radian output voltage which is pretty much a pass-thru).
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

sodamo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:04 amThink I’m liking these settings
David, I'm curious. What are the battery settings on your inverter for comparison to your FM? I understand you don't use the generator that much but if you had occasion/need to do so, do you run it up to set parameters or just enough for what you need at the time?
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

You show me yours, I'll show you mine.
20210126_093231.jpg
Using "Bulk until full" 56.4V charging.
20210126_093159.jpg
Using 56.4V on the generator as well. If running the generator to termination, I don't care if the FM80s don't have priority for the 60 seconds the termination voltage is held.
20210126_093128.jpg
Using a "dynamic" Charged Return Amps. By the time the Charged Voltage reaches 56V, and the Charged Return Amps reaches 24A, the battery impedance is rising rapidly and the charge current is "falling off a cliff". At the end of 60 seconds Charged Time, current reaches 9A, the 2% limit specified by Phi.
Last edited by raysun on Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

I think we've had close to 12" rain in the last few days, about 4" per day. And I was worried about my catchment tank :-) I may not get to test out the new 56.v absorb setting for a while - they say give it a few weeks to make a difference, but I'm not sure I will reach the Float stage much this week.
They don't call it Waialeale for nothing. 😉

Whenever I have occasion to get a water delivery to fill our tanks, I warn the community to expect epic rain within 48 hours. Sure enough, happens every time. I have quite the reputation. 🤣🤣 Fill the talks with delicious Waiohinu well water, open the catchment bypass, and 48 hours later, will have dumped 3000 gallons of rainwater on the ground. Good thing we live on A'a. All that water barely leaves a wet spot.

If I have to run the generator, I usually say 80% SoC is good enough. If I want to sync the metering (or stuff the Anode like a Christmas goose) I'll run it to 100%. I don't even need to watch the progress. The Honda hums along, then goes dead quiet suddenly. Charging's done.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

Yup, whenever the tank is half full (2 weeks left) I tell our household we are now on orange alert for water, and we get a flash flood. Works like a charm! I just say the words, and don't bother enforcing them much, and just within a few days watch the weather predictions change from a week of sunshine to heavy rain :-)
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

gtarolli wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:26 pm Yup, whenever the tank is half full (2 weeks left) I tell our household we are now on orange alert for water, and we get a flash flood. Works like a charm! I just say the words, and don't bother enforcing them much, and just within a few days watch the weather predictions change from a week of sunshine to heavy rain :-)
They call him "The Rainmaker".

First rule of catchment usage: The first 75% of the water lasts 25% of the time. The last 25% lasts the the other 75% of the time.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Gary
I’ll double check the notes, but according to tables in the latest guide 54.0 is correct.

As for rain abit over 9 so far
FECC4C7A-24A8-493D-B8B4-3610F0DD684D.png
Curious how the day plays out. If I can generate about 20 kwh today I should make it thru the night without generator
60C033F3-5EF1-4F81-BB3E-FF507829D2B8.jpeg
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Jim here are my Inverter/ AGS settings
AE08D03E-AA9A-4BD2-8A56-1967EB33CCE6.jpeg
2C42081F-4822-4CA2-98BC-4F88DFD0A657.jpeg
But it has been awhile since I’ve had an AGS run other than exercise, in fact I don’t remember. You are right in that I have been manually intervening to run a partial charge to get thru the night.
Very tempted today to let it run its course. Still, it would be a partial charge with hope for sufficient PV tomorrow to finish.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Guess we are spoiled for water. 4 catchment tanks @ 4k gal each. At average 140 inches/yr we haven’t run low.
Only have a 3k gal tank at cottage and the tenants seem to be heavy users and I ship water to them during dry spells. Fortunately when I trenched the electric to the cottage years ago I also added a waterline open on both end. On a sunny day John can just stick a hose in the tank and run a few hours.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

Their latest Rev 042920 guide contradicts itself IMO. It says 56.4v for Absorb, 54v Charged Voltage (as you state) but with a comment saying .4v below the lowest charger's absorb voltage setting. So either they meant float, or they meant 56v, or they assume you have assume you have a grid charger enabled (the absorb voltage is shown as 54.4 for this). My guess is the last option - which probably is not relevant for most of us, i.e. we don't use the grid to complete the absorb cycle, or if we did we probably don't care about CPM for that mode. So if you are using 56.4v for generator and PV charging then you want 56v for charged voltage.

p.s. I have one 7000 gallon tank, with approx 1000 sq ft of roof feeding it, for main house plus guest house, I've never run out (except when I had a underground water pipe leak), and seldom get down to 25%. 1" of rain equals about 800 gallons so a good 4" dump gets me half a tank.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

I think I understand their logic of 54.4V Absorb for 2H when on Gen or Grid as: If you're using a long running source of AC, might as well have a long running charge phase.

However, I don't know if its superior to simply getting to 56.4 and quitting.

Enquiring minds want to know, we should ask Phi for a Zoom meeting or some such nonsense.

We have a pair of 4000 gallon Chemtainers and about the same roof area. I prefer buying well water, but our catchment water is good, too.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by gtarolli »

I'm not sure I would want to run the generator for 2 hours at 54.4v absorb - it could limit its output well below a more optimal output in terms of gas usage and wear-and-tear.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

gtarolli wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:28 pm I'm not sure I would want to run the generator for 2 hours at 54.4v absorb - it could limit its output well below a more optimal output in terms of gas usage and wear-and-tear.
My sediments exactly. If I gotta use gas, I want to put my foot in it, and git 'er done.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

gtarolli wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:28 pm I'm not sure I would want to run the generator for 2 hours at 54.4v absorb - it could limit its output well below a more optimal output in terms of gas usage and wear-and-tear.
Though it seems that bulk to 56.4 spends a good deal of the charge phase pumping in current around 54.4. At 60A, it progresses slowly toward 55.0, then voltage rises relatively quickly.

I didn't note the charge current when held at 54.4, but met charge parameters in 90 minutes. Not far different from reaching 56.4, time wise.

For me, I'm looking to get the most PV harvest, especially in the afternoon cloud streams, so bulk helps with that.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Tonight will prove interesting.

Put 22.7kwh back into system today, but SOC only climbed to 46%. So while voltage is close to my average daily usage, my average SOC% drop is around 30%. I don’t want to go below 20% and that would require a generator run. So I will “patiently” wait to see if AGS kicks in and which trigger, 20%, 50.8v or 50.4v. Likely will over monitor until I go to bed snd then sleep with one ear cocked to hear sound of generator start, sometime in the wee hours.
863A0B58-3068-452F-BDA2-8A4AD0D984EE.png
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Generator triggered by AGS SOC this morning. Ran 42 minutes. Only to 30%, 53.7v @5:33 min. Expected 40%, will have to investigate why terminated early.
5AED5DEB-15E0-413E-AD59-8AE89EAC44E2.png
But I’m starting this morning about same as yesterday. Will be interesting to see what next 24 hours bring.

Must have slept well as generator didn’t wake me
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

sodamo wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:47 amExpected 40%, will have to investigate why terminated early.
Seems you satisfied the Absorb voltage of 53.6 before you got to the SOC shut down setting.

BTW, thanks for adding your inverter settings!
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FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

Jim, that was my thought except my Absorb time is .5 hr. And it only ran 5:33m.
So I adjusted the Inverter Absorb volt to 54 and see what happens. The way today’s wx shaping up I expect gen will run again.
More of an exploratory exercise as I’m not displeased with current results. I haven’t read anything to indicate undue stress on the battery in the 52-53v range, 20+ SOC, maybe Raysun has some insight.
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Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:13 am Jim, that was my thought except my Absorb time is .5 hr. And it only ran 5:33m.
So I adjusted the Inverter Absorb volt to 54 and see what happens. The way today’s wx shaping up I expect gen will run again.
More of an exploratory exercise as I’m not displeased with current results. I haven’t read anything to indicate undue stress on the battery in the 52-53v range, 20+ SOC, maybe Raysun has some insight.
I'd think the battery OK in the 52-53V range. The 20% SoC figure seems to be a consensus minimum for long cell life, and is baked into Phi's warranty and guides.
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