SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

KeithBriggs
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm
My RE system: 16k 2 8k Radian 4 FM80 48 300w panels, 6 3.4 simpliphi Grid-tied, HBX mode connect 50.4 disconnect 51.2.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

Raysun, Thanks for those values, At 13:30 I just dropped into 89% and "current"ly 2.9k in, 3.3k out. I don't think it will level off so I probably need something between 53.2 and 53.6. I will let it ride until sunset to compare with float at 53.6v. I suspect that sunset SOC is also load dependent during float.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

KeithBriggs wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:40 pm Raysun, Thanks for those values, At 13:30 I just dropped into 89% and "current"ly 2.9k in, 3.3k out. I don't think it will level off so I probably need something between 53.2 and 53.6. I will let it ride until sunset to compare with float at 53.6v. I suspect that sunset SOC is also load dependent during float.
I think the Float "sweet spot" will vary by site nominal load. Ours are generally fairly light, and we usually have a good amount of "makeup" PV power in reserve, so can use a fairly low Float voltage. Higher nominal demand, or less makeup power would probably argue for a higher setting.

Since SimpliPhi specifies 54V Float in their docs, and tacitly recommends against float, any voltage =< 54V should serve.
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

I hit full charge from the FM80 for the 2nd day in a row and CPM. I'm now tightening up the parameters in the Battery Monitor > Battery Setup as they were pretty low/conservative. I don't think I really hit all the triggers in solar today but I had fired the "mouse" generator (that's what the wife calls it) as the sun was getting weak. I hadn't hit float but running that for an hour for an exercise period did it with only 0.4kW from it. Hitting CPM and having the SOC reset to 100% at 55.2 seems to be working well but its only the 2nd day. I love it for the time being.

This AM I actually fell below 60% SOC before the sun came on - the Mate3 Battery Status went to red - 52.3vdc. Oh NOoo! But I hadn't run the generator yesterday. What a cool feeling. So things are coming together.

Mr. Keith, stay with it. You'll hit the sweet spot soon. As Raysun said all our systems, loads and inputs are different. So there is a little massaging within the numbers to get it where you want to be. And then it will change (wink).
KeithBriggs
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm
My RE system: 16k 2 8k Radian 4 FM80 48 300w panels, 6 3.4 simpliphi Grid-tied, HBX mode connect 50.4 disconnect 51.2.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

That's great Jim.

Got busy yesterday PM and forgot about it. Car 1500w until 4PM and crockpot and dehydrater were running until 5PM so sunset SOC ~76%. By a few electrons, stayed above 51.0v before sunrise. Did a 9 mile hike from National park to Hookena along the ocean and packed a breakfast for Hookena. Trail was great until you get to Hookena where a guy stuck a shack in the middle of the trail and you basically have to walk in the water to finish hike and get to public picnic beach area. You come to hawaii for the weather not the aloha spirit when it comes to some locals. Anyway, back around 1PM just as reaching 100%

It occurred to me while hiking. I'm only changing the FM80s float number That might not be correct.

Just changing FM80 float values, 53.8v got to 98% equilibrium. It appears that 53.2v was landing around 84% (before I lost visual) and today 53.6 is landing at 94%. After graphing Float vs SOC it does not seem to be linear, its more dramatic. Each incremental decrement will have a larger SOC change. I believe it is due to the flattening of the voltage curve as you lower it. Again, I'm only changing the charge controller's voltage. I'll leave it at 53.6 for several iterations and see how it goes each day.

Having fun rehashing the CO design, snow and wind loads for the spacing on my roof penetrations. I'm going to move the roof venting and one plumbing vent to ease the install of the panels and get 22 of 26 facing South. New Roof anyway so no big deal. I thought I got an FM100 but got 2 FM80s so need to redo the string calc.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

The Float voltage tweak is load dependent for sure. Our afternoon loads are light, and our PV "makeup" potential fairly large, so I had to walk Float voltage down to 53.1.

The key metrics for me is maintaining a small, continuous discharge, and the net discharge at the end of the Float phase.

YMMV.
KeithBriggs
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm
My RE system: 16k 2 8k Radian 4 FM80 48 300w panels, 6 3.4 simpliphi Grid-tied, HBX mode connect 50.4 disconnect 51.2.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

Raysun, I understood you from before. This technique does get you unparked from the high voltage, the lower the better from a parking standpoint but eventually with loads during float, the system asymptotically reaches that float voltage and there you park(float). 1. during the additional time you are not parked is good and given that the batteries are not at a higher voltage is good. I'm leaving 3 FM80's at 53.6 but the one that handles the NW strings that catch last sun I'm going to have at 54. I will get a slight bonus charge from say 5PM to 6. That CC is capped at 30a.

edit: It appears that I did get 2 FM100's 4 panels per string instead of 2. 1/2 the breakers and 1/2 the use2 wire on the roof. Outback's string tool is clunky but useful. It doesn't have my Neo 360W so had to create a line at the bottom. For fun, I wanted to check my HI system. I had to copy my Hanwha 300W down to the bottom and rename. They have 3 Hanwha 300W entries but the lookup can only grab the first one. My Q.Peak is the 3rd one. They could take an hour and make it 10 times easier to use. Still, once you get it to behave it does all 3 calcs for string sizing. CO goes from -35C to 35C so temp adjusted calcs are material.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

All that string calc and multi-float voltage stuff is too complicated for my pea brain.

I use Float coordination, so not sure how it would react to a variety of voltages.

My array was calculated on the back of a cocktail napkin with a martini glass sweat-ring on it, so some of the numbers may have been a bit fuzzy. The saving grace is all the panels lay out in the same plane, are identical models, and its Hawaii. 30 below here on the mauna is 38°F. Biggest out-of-STC variable for me seems to be the occasional irradiance in excess of 1kW/sq m, so both my arrays on the FM80s are 3.5kW - or will be if I get around to hooking up the last 4 panels. Its on my list marked "to-do bumbye".
KeithBriggs
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm
My RE system: 16k 2 8k Radian 4 FM80 48 300w panels, 6 3.4 simpliphi Grid-tied, HBX mode connect 50.4 disconnect 51.2.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

For system ONE: I only checked the open circuit voltage. Glad too that the temp differences are minimal. One reason we are here on 5-O. Snow load is 120 pounds per sq ft in CO. That's insane and why I will need a roof penetration every rail every truss.
Last edited by KeithBriggs on Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dnnap
Forum Whiz
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:49 am
My RE system: Outback FlexPower One FXR3048A
(6) 315w Longi solar panels (3S2P)
(1) LifePower Lifepo4 48V 100ah
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by Dnnap »

KeithBriggs wrote:
One reason we are here on 5-O. Snow load is 120 pounds per sq ft in CO. That's insane and why I will need a roof penetration every rail every truss.
I know this is off-topic, but this may save you some work.

You may over design using those snow load values unless the roof will have a continuous snow depth of 4 feet.
Snow load per cubic foot is usually between 10 lbs/ft³ to 30 lbs/ft³ depending on the moisture content. Water weighs around 63 lbs/ft³.
Even if factored for dead load the high end of 30 lbs/ft³ would equate to (1.25 dead load factor) x 30 lbs/ft³ = 37.5 lbs/ft³.

When I designed my cabin in Northern Ontario I used 30lbs/ft³ snow load with a maximum accumulation of 5 feet because the pitch of the roof would allow the snow to break/slide at around 4 feet deep. In some areas of the roof I had to use a higher value of snow depth due to drifting at exterior walls where a lower roof meets a wall. In this case I went with 12" rafter spacing to satisfy the the distributed snow loads.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sbrownian »

Had 110" of total snow pack a few years ago, and the roof mounted panels had the 'wedge' build up at the bottom.
Rain and melt / refreeze crunched two out of the four the bottom row panels.
Attachments
Canty-Panel010.jpg
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

Yep, definitely off topic. Maybe ask OB to put up a Better Homes and Rooftops sub forum.
KeithBriggs
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm
My RE system: 16k 2 8k Radian 4 FM80 48 300w panels, 6 3.4 simpliphi Grid-tied, HBX mode connect 50.4 disconnect 51.2.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

That's very interesting. My system would be up but had baseball hail. New decks and stain last summer, new roofs this summer THEN the fun starts. I figured that hail which sounded like a firearm would have done the same to the panels so glad it wasn't up yet. Great photo. My big unknown is my truss / rafter spacing. I tried them all with the snapnrack tool and I'm at every truss until I got down to 14" Its likely they are somewhere between 16 & 24. 6/12 and 12/12 pitches which helps. The 110 mph wind is nothing compared to the snow. 120 pounds per sq ft is like people standing on every sq in of the roof at the same time! These huge 77" panels are (new) ridgevent to gutter so should get some good sliding effect save the gutter. I'm generally not there then so no ability to rake or motivate the snow off.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sbrownian »

Log cabin.

You could just about set a D-8 on the roof of that place given the logs that are under pinning it.
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

sbrownian wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:34 pm Log cabin.

You could just about set a D-8 on the roof of that place given the logs that are under pinning it.
I keep waiting for when this is getting around to charging SimpliPhi batteries. Doesn't look like its going there, so I respectfully request you take your cabin building experiences to another thread.

OK?
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sbrownian »

Rrrokay, Rrrellroy...
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

The Buccaneers need to win. If the Buccaneers don't win the sun won't shine. If the sun doesn't shine it will affect my SimpliPHI batteries. Worse, if KC wins the logs on my house might deteriorate from lack of sunlight and the panels will be jeopardized. This is serious.
sodamo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by sodamo »

My system topped up during 1st half so it’s a good thing. 3 cheers for old Sol, charge on.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

sodamo wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:39 pm My system topped up during 1st half so it’s a good thing. 3 cheers for old Sol, charge on.
So Mr. Raysun, a bit of teasing. But seriously, I appreciate your coaching to keep the thread on track. It is pretty obvious that the 3rd party battery section is quite active. And I think that some of these posts should go to new topics as this one is getting really long.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

It would be nice to be able to close a thread. This one has about run its course.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

In an attempt to avoid any meaningful work this afternoon, I've decided to watch paint dry, or my battery charge.
20210208_134504.jpg
1:21PM
Days since Charge Parameters Met 0.9
Bulk charge at 97% SoC

20210208_155622.jpg
1:26PM
After lunch dish washer cycle draws 1.7kW again. SoC jumps from 98% to 100% with Net Amps = -7AH. Battery voltage = 54.3V. Bulk charge continues.
Last edited by raysun on Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 6 times in total.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by raysun »

20210208_134610.jpg
1:42PM
56.4V @ 24A reached (Charged Voltage = 56.0, Charged Return Amps = 24A)
20210208_134643.jpg
1:43PM Charged Time = 1 Minute elapsed. The last charge current = 12.1A. The charge current was dropping about 1A every 5 seconds. Another tic and it would have been 9A, the specified End Amps. Charge cut off 15 seconds early, it appears. Not of much consequence.
uptopsolar
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by uptopsolar »

KeithBriggs wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:56 am Raysun, I understood you from before. This technique does get you unparked from the high voltage, the lower the better from a parking standpoint but eventually with loads during float, the system asymptotically reaches that float voltage and there you park(float). 1. during the additional time you are not parked is good and given that the batteries are not at a higher voltage is good. I'm leaving 3 FM80's at 53.6 but the one that handles the NW strings that catch last sun I'm going to have at 54. I will get a slight bonus charge from say 5PM to 6. That CC is capped at 30a.

edit: It appears that I did get 2 FM100's 4 panels per string instead of 2. 1/2 the breakers and 1/2 the use2 wire on the roof. Outback's string tool is clunky but useful. It doesn't have my Neo 360W so had to create a line at the bottom. For fun, I wanted to check my HI system. I had to copy my Hanwha 300W down to the bottom and rename. They have 3 Hanwha 300W entries but the lookup can only grab the first one. My Q.Peak is the 3rd one. They could take an hour and make it 10 times easier to use. Still, once you get it to behave it does all 3 calcs for string sizing. CO goes from -35C to 35C so temp adjusted calcs are material.
Hey,

There is a string sizing tool online that may help you with your OB products.

https://uptopsolarpower.com/string-sizing#page-top

I made it myself, hopefully that might help. :)
UpTop Solar LLC
Gwendoly Espe
uptopsolarpower.com
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by JRHill »

uptopsolar wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:01 pm
KeithBriggs wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:56 amStill, once you get it to behave it does all 3 calcs for string sizing. CO goes from -35C to 35C so temp adjusted calcs are material.
Hey,

There is a string sizing tool online that may help you with your OB products.

https://uptopsolarpower.com/string-sizing#page-top

I made it myself, hopefully that might help. :)
Hope the new project is successful!
KeithBriggs
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm
My RE system: 16k 2 8k Radian 4 FM80 48 300w panels, 6 3.4 simpliphi Grid-tied, HBX mode connect 50.4 disconnect 51.2.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by KeithBriggs »

I mentioned somewhere on another thread that my anti-float technique is a little different. I set Float and re-bulk on my 4 FM80's under battery charging to 53.6, 53.5, 53.4 and 53.3. Its been working great. Its never floating so it just rides up and down between 100 and 97/98%. Under low loads only one CC might come online but a heavy load will draw them all back on. The voltage are lower so it doesn't hammer the high end but still kisses what is roughly 100% of the usable battery bandwidth. The strings that are facing the NW and SW are the two higher voltages...I want them to come on first as they catch the most last light.

In CO I have to re-roof first while moving two plumbing vents and put a new deck on before I can start having fun with the snapnrack rails, etc. Veggies first, then cake!
uptopsolar
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 54.4 v.s. 56.4

Post by uptopsolar »

JRHill wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:15 pm
uptopsolar wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:01 pm
KeithBriggs wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:56 amStill, once you get it to behave it does all 3 calcs for string sizing. CO goes from -35C to 35C so temp adjusted calcs are material.
Hey,

There is a string sizing tool online that may help you with your OB products.

https://uptopsolarpower.com/string-sizing#page-top

I made it myself, hopefully that might help. :)
Hope the new project is successful!
Thank you!

-Gwendoly
UpTop Solar LLC
Gwendoly Espe
uptopsolarpower.com
Post Reply