LI battery tuning

sbrownian
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My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: LI battery tuning

Post by sbrownian »

raysun..

The Relion 48v 300 Ahr batts have a CANBus connection, but I've been told by them that it is "proprietary" and basically to not ask for any info.
Hmm...

Well, I did manage to get a reply indicating that they may (or may not,) be in communication with Outback to figure out some integration strategy.

Sheesh.

I am going to be closely studying the Relion docs, and see how they act over time. They've only been in service now for a few weeks, but I can see a few tweaks that I think should be done, and they line up with your 'soft' 100% ideas. (The old FLA locomotive batts did fine in the summer with lots of solar to do the last 10%, but they REALLY cost a lot more in terms of efficiency when the gen is used.)

The system is strictly on generator this time of the year, (the site is shaded until mid February, and only gets incident PV, usually peaks at less than 100w at any one time.)

So far, the user is running it down to slightly above 20% then running the gen for 6 to 7 hours to get them back up to full. The cycle has been about every 3 to 3 1/2 days. The prime culprit in the power use category is the forced air furnace, and uses about 600w when running, but it's cycling about 3x per hour during the day. A good 'chinking' of the log cabin is in order to cut down on heat loss, and the Russian fireplace is going to be fed quite a bit more fuel now in attempt to off load the heating requirements.. (Takes about 24 hours for any increase in energy to 'soak out' of that big pile of concrete and rock!)

I would hope that Outback has a Li coulomb counter in the works, though.

BTW, when the system had first been installed, I had 'tongue in cheek' mentioned that a heat recovery system from the Kubota might be useful. At that time, there were no plans to occupy the place through the winter. Well, COVID changed all that...
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
JRHill
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

sbrownian wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:13 am raysun..

The Relion 48v 300 Ahr batts have a CANBus connection, but I've been told by them that it is "proprietary" and basically to not ask for any info.
Hmm...

Well, I did manage to get a reply indicating that they may (or may not,) be in communication with Outback to figure out some integration strategy.

Sheesh.

I am going to be closely studying the Relion docs, and see how they act over time. They've only been in service now for a few weeks, but I can see a few tweaks that I think should be done, and they line up with your 'soft' 100% ideas. (The old FLA locomotive batts did fine in the summer with lots of solar to do the last 10%, but they REALLY cost a lot more in terms of efficiency when the gen is used.)

The system is strictly on generator this time of the year, (the site is shaded until mid February, and only gets incident PV, usually peaks at less than 100w at any one time.)

So far, the user is running it down to slightly above 20% then running the gen for 6 to 7 hours to get them back up to full. The cycle has been about every 3 to 3 1/2 days. The prime culprit in the power use category is the forced air furnace, and uses about 600w when running, but it's cycling about 3x per hour during the day. A good 'chinking' of the log cabin is in order to cut down on heat loss, and the Russian fireplace is going to be fed quite a bit more fuel now in attempt to off load the heating requirements.. (Takes about 24 hours for any increase in energy to 'soak out' of that big pile of concrete and rock!)

I would hope that Outback has a Li coulomb counter in the works, though.

BTW, when the system had first been installed, I had 'tongue in cheek' mentioned that a heat recovery system from the Kubota might be useful. At that time, there were no plans to occupy the place through the winter. Well, COVID changed all that...
Now THIS is relevant for me and not because I have GE and EMD locomotives as a distant love. The arthritis in my wrists from spline drive impacts (and roller blade skates) and the chinking of logs makes my hair stand on end. The locomotives are long gone but the log maintenance is still at play. TG I don't have to paint - at least in the traditional sense.

There are several points of interest in the above. Where is this test being conducted (latitude)? The "Russian" fireplace, huh? Is it really a fireplace (terribly inefficient) or is it a sealed unit/burner? Forced air: not a resistance heat but must be the fan and controls at 600 watts? I am guessing this is a full time project if Covid hadn't screwed it up. And I wonder about the planned power usage and habits if it had materialized. Is this truly off grid or grid tied? Heat recovery: with a liquid cooled engine this is interesting but an antifreeze system scares the daylights out of me. Its a gruesome death.

This would be fun to follow. I have a lot of thoughts and memories related to the above.

BTW, the BEST off grid heating system I experienced was a Central Boiler. A wood fired water heater well away from anything else. I had ample wood to feed it. It heated 7000 square foot in two structures. If a chimney fire ya just monitor it until it burned itself out and then reload before the coals burned out. It was a weird kind of maintenance free. Power draw from the circulating pumps was literally 300 watts. But the heat I generated for cutting and prepping wood was mega watts.
raysun
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

"and roller blade skates"

There was a time in my athletic youth I'd take on all sporting challenges. Then, a wiser me, when confronted with a new apparatus/activity, would come to ask: "What connective tissue am I willing to sacrifice in pursuit of this sport, and is it worth it?"
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: LI battery tuning

Post by sbrownian »

JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:07 pm
sbrownian wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:13 am raysun..

The Relion 48v 300 Ahr batts have a CANBus connection, but I've been told by them that it is "proprietary" and basically to not ask for any info.
Hmm...

Well, I did manage to get a reply indicating that they may (or may not,) be in communication with Outback to figure out some integration strategy.

Sheesh.

I am going to be closely studying the Relion docs, and see how they act over time. They've only been in service now for a few weeks, but I can see a few tweaks that I think should be done, and they line up with your 'soft' 100% ideas. (The old FLA locomotive batts did fine in the summer with lots of solar to do the last 10%, but they REALLY cost a lot more in terms of efficiency when the gen is used.)

The system is strictly on generator this time of the year, (the site is shaded until mid February, and only gets incident PV, usually peaks at less than 100w at any one time.)

So far, the user is running it down to slightly above 20% then running the gen for 6 to 7 hours to get them back up to full. The cycle has been about every 3 to 3 1/2 days. The prime culprit in the power use category is the forced air furnace, and uses about 600w when running, but it's cycling about 3x per hour during the day. A good 'chinking' of the log cabin is in order to cut down on heat loss, and the Russian fireplace is going to be fed quite a bit more fuel now in attempt to off load the heating requirements.. (Takes about 24 hours for any increase in energy to 'soak out' of that big pile of concrete and rock!)

I would hope that Outback has a Li coulomb counter in the works, though.

BTW, when the system had first been installed, I had 'tongue in cheek' mentioned that a heat recovery system from the Kubota might be useful. At that time, there were no plans to occupy the place through the winter. Well, COVID changed all that...
Now THIS is relevant for me and not because I have GE and EMD locomotives as a distant love. The arthritis in my wrists from spline drive impacts (and roller blade skates) and the chinking of logs makes my hair stand on end. The locomotives are long gone but the log maintenance is still at play. TG I don't have to paint - at least in the traditional sense.

There are several points of interest in the above. Where is this test being conducted (latitude)? The "Russian" fireplace, huh? Is it really a fireplace (terribly inefficient) or is it a sealed unit/burner? Forced air: not a resistance heat but must be the fan and controls at 600 watts? I am guessing this is a full time project if Covid hadn't screwed it up. And I wonder about the planned power usage and habits if it had materialized. Is this truly off grid or grid tied? Heat recovery: with a liquid cooled engine this is interesting but an antifreeze system scares the daylights out of me. Its a gruesome death.

This would be fun to follow. I have a lot of thoughts and memories related to the above.

BTW, the BEST off grid heating system I experienced was a Central Boiler. A wood fired water heater well away from anything else. I had ample wood to feed it. It heated 7000 square foot in two structures. If a chimney fire ya just monitor it until it burned itself out and then reload before the coals burned out. It was a weird kind of maintenance free. Power draw from the circulating pumps was literally 300 watts. But the heat I generated for cutting and prepping wood was mega watts.
The system is located in Central Washington State, off grid (by literally 10 miles or so,) and unfortunately, is shadowed from about November to mid-late February by a large pile of granite that goes up to about 8500 feet. The place is at about 3000' msl and can only be accessed by snow machines in winter.

You are correct in the furnace, it is a high efficiency forced air 80,000 BTU propane fired unit. The 600 watts is the total of the burner and circulation fan loads.

The Russian style (more properly referred to,) is an a "L" inverted "L" style chimney with a large firebox, and an air tight door with a large high temp glass 'window.'

It is fed unheated outside air for combustion via some duct work, and the flue path of the main firebox is as follows:

From the Firebox - the flue goes straight up for about 4 feet to where a small oven is located, and it then takes a 90 degree turn to the left, goes maybe a foot or so, another 90 degree turn to the left, goes back down to about the level of the firebox, now takes a 90 degree right turn, goes about 4 feet or so and then takes another 90 degree right turn and that is the actual flue that goes on up to the roof.

Imagine the firebox at one end of an upside down "U" shape, and the other leg of the "U" connects to the bottom leg of an "L" where the vertical part of the "L" is the final flue going to the roof.
The flue damper is located in that bottom of the "L" section just before the turn to the flue on up to the roof.

There are actually three flues incorporated into the column, one from the basement fireplace of similar design, and one from a more traditional 'open hearth' fireplace on the backside of the column but 'outside' on an enclosed porch. I don't know how many TONS of rock and concrete make up the beast, but it is designed to be run full tilt for most of a day or so, and then let the fire burn completely out, and the damper closed for the night. Past experience has shown me it takes almost five or six hours of continuous fire for the rockwork directly above the firebox to start to warm, and the side of the column where the last section of flue is, won't warm up for almost 18 to 24 hours. Once that mass is warm, it literally takes days for it to cool off. You feed it and let it run full tilt until you're done with having a fire for the day, and then close the flue to keep the air from going through it. Since you run it without any air restrictions, they burn VERY clean, and you generally don't have trouble with crud in the flue.

The heat recovery idea was mentioned, but I said it mostly as a "maybe you should.." but even I didn't take it seriously. It is a summer home, with only the occasional trip in on sleds for a winter time adventure, and not really worth the effort. (BTW, you use propylene glycol as the anti-freeze in the loop between the engine and the house heat exchanger as it is non-toxic.)
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:14 pm "and roller blade skates"

There was a time in my athletic youth I'd take on all sporting challenges. Then, a wiser me, when confronted with a new apparatus/activity, would come to ask: "What connective tissue am I willing to sacrifice in pursuit of this sport, and is it worth it?"
I neglected to consider that, unlike skis, ya just can't shift sideways to slow down. Face plant. Wrists. Scratched nose.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:16 pm
raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:14 pm "and roller blade skates"

There was a time in my athletic youth I'd take on all sporting challenges. Then, a wiser me, when confronted with a new apparatus/activity, would come to ask: "What connective tissue am I willing to sacrifice in pursuit of this sport, and is it worth it?"
I neglected to consider that, unlike skis, ya just can't shift sideways to slow down. Face plant. Wrists. Scratched nose.
Roller Blades are a Whole 'Nother Thing. A thread/yarn of its own somewhere.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:29 pm
JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:16 pm
raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:14 pm "and roller blade skates"

There was a time in my athletic youth I'd take on all sporting challenges. Then, a wiser me, when confronted with a new apparatus/activity, would come to ask: "What connective tissue am I willing to sacrifice in pursuit of this sport, and is it worth it?"
I neglected to consider that, unlike skis, ya just can't shift sideways to slow down. Face plant. Wrists. Scratched nose.
Roller Blades are a Whole 'Nother Thing. A thread/yarn of its own somewhere.
OK I tried to do the same recently on a different thread. Thx, Raysun, you are correct.

I love my LI batteries. I want to learn more about how they work with other integrated system. But I also want to learn more about the LI batteries in a remote, off grid situation. And its not just one mfgr, its all of them. I don't want sales pointers/promotions or marketing. I want real use applications and solutions in action.

[My wrists still hurt]
raysun
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REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

"I want real use applications and solutions in action."
I'd think ask the Army, but more in the remote off-grid application, I think a few of us are living that.

[My wrists still hurt]
Number 1 dry land fall injury: wrists
Number 1 ski slope fall injury: thumbs
sbrownian
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Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: LI battery tuning

Post by sbrownian »

JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:59 pm
raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:29 pm
JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:16 pm

I neglected to consider that, unlike skis, ya just can't shift sideways to slow down. Face plant. Wrists. Scratched nose.
Roller Blades are a Whole 'Nother Thing. A thread/yarn of its own somewhere.
OK I tried to do the same recently on a different thread. Thx, Raysun, you are correct.

I love my LI batteries. I want to learn more about how they work with other integrated system. But I also want to learn more about the LI batteries in a remote, off grid situation. And its not just one mfgr, its all of them. I don't want sales pointers/promotions or marketing. I want real use applications and solutions in action.

[My wrists still hurt]

CADEX is a pretty well known company (well, in the communications world, anyway,) that makes all kinds of testing / charging equipment.

Here is a link to one entry point on their website about lithium batteries..


Lots of info here, and should give you a place to start. I'd pay attention to the age of their articles though, as there have been advances even in the last six months to a year that might influence what they have posted.... (YMMV.)

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

sbrownian wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 pm
JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:59 pm
raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:29 pm

Roller Blades are a Whole 'Nother Thing. A thread/yarn of its own somewhere.
OK I tried to do the same recently on a different thread. Thx, Raysun, you are correct.

I love my LI batteries. I want to learn more about how they work with other integrated system. But I also want to learn more about the LI batteries in a remote, off grid situation. And its not just one mfgr, its all of them. I don't want sales pointers/promotions or marketing. I want real use applications and solutions in action.

[My wrists still hurt]

CADEX is a pretty well known company (well, in the communications world, anyway,) that makes all kinds of testing / charging equipment.

Here is a link to one entry point on their website about lithium batteries..


Lots of info here, and should give you a place to start. I'd pay attention to the age of their articles though, as there have been advances even in the last six months to a year that might influence what they have posted.... (YMMV.)

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries
I think most all of us have attended Battery University in our careers. A good resource. Yes, the syllabus could use some updating in places.

Thanks for the re-intro.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

So tonight I watched the system like a hawk after raising the absorb to 54.8. It took about 35 minutes to get from the previous set point of 54.4 to 54.8 when the inverter went into float. Curious thing was that there was no "soak" at the absorb set point for an hour. I noticed this previously but thought I missed something. Nope... goes right to float.

I think I like this threshold for the absorb set point. There was no ramp down of the charging and as mentioned no absorb time. But I put another 35 minutes of charge into the batteries. As it seems now the generator will not fire off in the morning before I get some sunlight to hold me over until evening with the exception of snow covered panels ;-). I like it. But I still need to figure out the absorb time being ignored. Its something stupid, I'm sure.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:53 pm So tonight I watched the system like a hawk after raising the absorb to 54.8. It took about 35 minutes to get from the previous set point of 54.4 to 54.8 when the inverter went into float. Curious thing was that there was no "soak" at the absorb set point for an hour. I noticed this previously but thought I missed something. Nope... goes right to float.

I think I like this threshold for the absorb set point. There was no ramp down of the charging and as mentioned no absorb time. But I put another 35 minutes of charge into the batteries. As it seems now the generator will not fire off in the morning before I get some sunlight to hold me over until evening with the exception of snow covered panels ;-). I like it. But I still need to figure out the absorb time being ignored. Its something stupid, I'm sure.
Did the FNDC state charged parameters met?
What's set for Charged Voltage, Charged Time, Charged End Amps?

BTW, at 56.4V "Absorb" for 0.1H, my personal record for entering Absorb was on the order of 95A (16A per block). That still dropped to and through my (at the time) 12A Charged Return Amps within 6 minutes.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

(shhh. cant talk now. I've spent too much time on this and have to do the dear wife thing. we'll cover this tomorrow)
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by sodamo »

So I have to wonder if maybe I’m getting a soft 100% as Raysun. I sure aren’t staying at 100%
See graphs and settings.

I still never see greater than 54.6 volts, even clicking on the graph.

Oh and 79 days since Parameters Met. Can’t explain that one.maybe not meeting voltage?
Attachments
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Last edited by sodamo on Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by sodamo »

JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:40 pm (shhh. cant talk now. I've spent too much time on this and have to do the dear wife thing. we'll cover this tomorrow)
Wife comes FIRST 😁
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:44 pm So I have to wonder if maybe I’m getting a soft 100% as Raysun. I sure aren’t staying at 100%
See graphs and settings.

I still never see greater than 54.6 volts, even clicking on the graph.

Oh and 79 days since Parameters Met. Can’t explain that one.maybe not meeting voltage?
TBH, yours looks like the ideal charge/discharge to me.

I'm suprised how much energy it takes to get from "low voltage" full charge to 56.4V "Absorb" and charge termination via Charged Parameters Met.

I always hit 100% SoC short of achieving "Absorb". Between that mark and "Absorb" charging power seems to need to be 2.5 k or more. I got to 100% today but not Charged Parameters Met. That means I was somewhere around 3AH short of "true" 100%.

The only heartburn I have with not achieving Charged Parameters Met is the cumulative error represented by SoC on the FNDC. That makes correlating voltage to state of charge for the actual current discharge rate of the battery an important exercise.

I'd be quite happy charging the battery "full enough" if I could rely on the voltage reading / SoC relationship. As it stands now operationally, I want to reach Charged Parameters Met at least weekly so the FNDC is synced at a known point in time.
Last edited by raysun on Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by fcwlp »

And you guys were worried about SimpliPhi warranty coverage. Did you read that section of the warranty were they want to be able to log-in to your system and review your settings? :grin:
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:47 pm
JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:40 pm (shhh. cant talk now. I've spent too much time on this and have to do the dear wife thing. we'll cover this tomorrow)
Wife comes FIRST 😁
Now you might understand why I get up at 4AM.
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

fcwlp wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:29 pm And you guys were worried about SimpliPhi warranty coverage. Did you read that section of the warranty were they want to be able to log-in to your system and review your settings? :grin:
Yes. Hell, I INVITE them to do so. In fact, may ask they do so every week. 😂
sodamo
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by sodamo »

fcwlp wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:29 pm And you guys were worried about SimpliPhi warranty coverage. Did you read that section of the warranty were they want to be able to log-in to your system and review your settings? :grin:
They are welcome to review mine anytime so long as I get beneficial feedback.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
JRHill
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:00 pm
JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:53 pm So tonight I watched the system like a hawk after raising the absorb to 54.8. It took about 35 minutes to get from the previous set point of 54.4 to 54.8 when the inverter went into float. Curious thing was that there was no "soak" at the absorb set point for an hour. I noticed this previously but thought I missed something. Nope... goes right to float.

I think I like this threshold for the absorb set point. There was no ramp down of the charging and as mentioned no absorb time. But I put another 35 minutes of charge into the batteries. As it seems now the generator will not fire off in the morning before I get some sunlight to hold me over until evening with the exception of snow covered panels ;-). I like it. But I still need to figure out the absorb time being ignored. Its something stupid, I'm sure.
Did the FNDC state charged parameters met?
What's set for Charged Voltage, Charged Time, Charged End Amps?

BTW, at 56.4V "Absorb" for 0.1H, my personal record for entering Absorb was on the order of 95A (16A per block). That still dropped to and through my (at the time) 12A Charged Return Amps within 6 minutes.
Nope. In fact, I've always had trouble hitting the parameters set. For daily use now with the PHIs I have the Absorb set point at 54.8 as above, up from 54.4 previously. When I fully charge the batteries to reset the FNDC I change the Absorb and time accordingly and most always end up doing a hard reset at the FNDC. For parameters met settings I have them as if I was going to do a 100% charge so when I do so no changes need be made:
Charged Voltage 56, 1 minute
Return Amps 7.5

So the plan is that when I do a full charge all I do is change the absorb and time and run with it for a full cycle. FNDC should be reset but usually it doesn't so I run for the crawl space to do it manually.

Here's something I noticed yesterday in the SimliPHI documentation, paragraph 5.1 Operating parameters per warranty. If you desire the 10000 or the 5000 cycles the Absorb High Cut off must max at 54.4. I can only speculate but if one exceeds 54.4 the warranty will be for 3500 cycles regardless of DOD. So DOD isn't the only determining factor, its also the Absorb cut off as well. These values are stated as "recommended" but my recommendation is not to exceed their recommendation if you want to shoot for a given number of cycles. I recommend one review the recommendations and recommend adjustments from there.
JRHill
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Re: LI battery tuning

Post by JRHill »

fcwlp wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:29 pm And you guys were worried about SimpliPhi warranty coverage. Did you read that section of the warranty were they want to be able to log-in to your system and review your settings? :grin:
Yup There it is, paragraph 3.0, Obtaining warranty service:
"System monitoring login and password for access to complete system-level monitoring
data of all included system components must be provided to SimpliPhi in order to submit
any battery capacity related Warranty claim."

I attempted to set up a review only profile but that was on the old site. I didn't work for me. Maybe I'll try again. I didn't see that they'd void the warranty unless they could change the settings. Whoops :eek: That'll be in the next rev.
raysun
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REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:45 am
raysun wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:00 pm
JRHill wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:53 pm So tonight I watched the system like a hawk after raising the absorb to 54.8. It took about 35 minutes to get from the previous set point of 54.4 to 54.8 when the inverter went into float. Curious thing was that there was no "soak" at the absorb set point for an hour. I noticed this previously but thought I missed something. Nope... goes right to float.

I think I like this threshold for the absorb set point. There was no ramp down of the charging and as mentioned no absorb time. But I put another 35 minutes of charge into the batteries. As it seems now the generator will not fire off in the morning before I get some sunlight to hold me over until evening with the exception of snow covered panels ;-). I like it. But I still need to figure out the absorb time being ignored. Its something stupid, I'm sure.
Did the FNDC state charged parameters met?
What's set for Charged Voltage, Charged Time, Charged End Amps?

BTW, at 56.4V "Absorb" for 0.1H, my personal record for entering Absorb was on the order of 95A (16A per block). That still dropped to and through my (at the time) 12A Charged Return Amps within 6 minutes.
Nope. In fact, I've always had trouble hitting the parameters set. For daily use now with the PHIs I have the Absorb set point at 54.8 as above, up from 54.4 previously. When I fully charge the batteries to reset the FNDC I change the Absorb and time accordingly and most always end up doing a hard reset at the FNDC. For parameters met settings I have them as if I was going to do a 100% charge so when I do so no changes need be made:
Charged Voltage 56, 1 minute
Return Amps 7.5

So the plan is that when I do a full charge all I do is change the absorb and time and run with it for a full cycle. FNDC should be reset but usually it doesn't so I run for the crawl space to do it manually.

Here's something I noticed yesterday in the SimliPHI documentation, paragraph 5.1 Operating parameters per warranty. If you desire the 10000 or the 5000 cycles the Absorb High Cut off must max at 54.4. I can only speculate but if one exceeds 54.4 the warranty will be for 3500 cycles regardless of DOD. So DOD isn't the only determining factor, its also the Absorb cut off as well. These values are stated as "recommended" but my recommendation is not to exceed their recommendation if you want to shoot for a given number of cycles. I recommend one review the recommendations and recommend adjustments from there.
The documentation has been vague at best on the subject of "Absorb" voltage/time and cycles.

I've done enough experimenting with the "high" absorb voltage to satisfy myself that I understand its outward behavior.

I'm switching to the "low" absorb voltage. I'm going to start with 54.4@1H and see how close that comes to the 2% Return Amps target.

I chose 54.4 to give enough headroom for Charged Voltage = 54V. This lower value parameter concerns me, as events other than reaching full charge can trigger a "Charged Parameters Met" event.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

Just hit Absorb at 54.4 and can tell 1H is not going to be enough time, bumping to 2H.

Raised the FNDC Charged Time to 5 minutes.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: LI battery tuning

Post by raysun »

That was interesting. Absorb voltage=54.4V Absorb time=2H.

It took a lot of energy to enter Absorb. Seems like 54.3V is sort of an "event horizon" and the Bulk phase loitering at that voltage for nearly 2 hours before ticking over to 54.4V. A sustained charge current of 10A per monoblock was needed to hold the Absorb phase, and that didn't decline appreciably until the end of the phase.

Absorb was entered at 82% SoC, and charge was terminated at 100% SoC + 5AH. Return Amps=9A.

The Absorb phase took 1:48 to complete.

The charge cycle took about an hour longer in total.
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