Grid tile not showing power properly

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apachexmd
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Got the wife to send me a photo of the Skybox screen. Seems to be correct there:
IMG_20201028_124904~2_compress24.jpg
Here's the current Optics dashboard as well, still showing zero load.
Screenshot_20201028-125108.png
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Greg T Fordan
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Greg T Fordan »

apachexmd wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:58 pm Got the wife to send me a photo of the Skybox screen. Seems to be correct there:
IMG_20201028_124904~2_compress24.jpg

Here's the current Optics dashboard as well, still showing zero load.
Screenshot_20201028-125108.png
I agree, the tiles are correct, and that 2.2kw are actually the sum of 2 negative values of L1 and L2 in the Load Device map. in Optics, I am proposing a solution of retaining that 0 load on the Optics power flow but show dynamic dots flowing thru the inverter with a value of 2.2kW, in this case. That way, the math is correct.
apache.JPG
Greg T Fordan
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apachexmd
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Wouldn't you want the Dashboard to match what's shown on the Skybox screen? IE the load being the sum of AC couple generation and critical loads, instead of just 0W.

0W just feels wrong to me.

Also there is still the issue of the Grid tile showing Zeroed when it's not.

And the issue of my non-critical loads (EV chargers) showing up on the load tile inappropriately.
apachexmd
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

apachexmd wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:53 pm And the issue of my non-critical loads (EV chargers) showing up on the load tile inappropriately.
So I just read this in the Skybox Programming Guide, regarding tapping on the Load tile, and hitting the 'down chevron'.
If current transducers are active (set to any option other than
NONE on page 14), the following items replace those above:
○ Total Combined load and Total Self Supply
○ Total Protected load and Total Unprotected load
○ L1 and L2 Combined load and L1 and L2 Self supply
○ L1 and L2 Protected load and L1 and L2 Unprotected load
Since I have CTs installed at my main service conductors, Skybox's grid measurements will be the load for the entire house. It appears that with external CTs installed, the "Load" tile somehow separates out protected and unprotected loads? I assume an unprotected load is just the difference between what the CTs are reading and the Load output of the Skybox?

And that's why when I turn on my EV chargers, I see it on my Load tile as well? Kinda confusing.
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

I just got off the phone with Outback and they could not provide an answer on why my Grid tile sometimes gets stuck on Zeroed. The tech support rep agreed that it was wrong and should not be Zeroed when PV is producing and selling, but could not explain why. He puts some notes on my case file and will try to escalate to engineering. I'll post updates if I get any answers.


Tech support also confirmed that when external CTs are installed, the Load tile WILL show all loads, including loads not on the Skybox. If you tap on the load tile, and hit the down chevron, it breaks down the loads between protected and unprotected loads. This explains why my EV chargers are showing up on the load tile. Again this only happens when the optional external CTs are installed. I'll have to keep an eye on this to make sure this makes sense.
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Thanks for all the legwork you're doing, Apache. Hopefully all us grid-tied Skybox owners will benefit... someday.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
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- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Possibly a related issue. Right now I'm AC coupling about 800 watts and the load tile in Optics shows it properly, negative numbers:
Screenshot_20201030-140013_Samsung Internet.jpg
However, the dashboard indicates "powering", not AC Coupleing, and 0kw:
Screenshot_20201030-140043_Samsung Internet.jpg
And the local display for load is colored green, which typically means AC-coupled PV is greater than load - although the arrow direction seems like it should point from load to Skybox, not Skybox to load: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gg287Z ... p=drivesdk It's also erroneously indicating "powering" rather than AC coupling.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Interesting. I don't think I've seen "Powering" before.
Is that what it usually says when you are drawing from your batteries?
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- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

apachexmd wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:35 pm Interesting. I don't think I've seen "Powering" before.
Is that what it usually says when you are drawing from your batteries?
Sometimes it says AC Coupleing. I don't know which predominates.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Another day, another wrong Grid tile display. Tonight I'm seeing the Grid tile Zeroed again, with no solar production and obvious load in use.
PXL_20201118_011441203.jpg
If I click on the Grid tile and hit the down arrow, you can see that the Skybox knows there is a grid draw of 0.8kw, but it just doesn't want to show on the main screen.
PXL_20201118_011454309.jpg
Let's get this fixed Outback! I want so much to love my Skybox but with problems like this, and Mike's high idle draw, and other nagging issues, I find it hard to say I'm happy.
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- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Let's get this fixed Outback! I want so much to love my Skybox but with problems like this, and Mike's high idle draw, and other nagging issues, I find it hard to say I'm happy.
I'm with you Apache on wanting to love it. In Outback's defense, they did spend a lot of time and effort (swapped out my original SB to troubleshoot) working with me on the high idle draw, and concluded it's due to a ground loop in my system. Still, it is very frustrating not being able to resolve it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_ ... een%20them.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

Mike Curran wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:06 am
Let's get this fixed Outback! I want so much to love my Skybox but with problems like this, and Mike's high idle draw, and other nagging issues, I find it hard to say I'm happy.
I'm with you Apache on wanting to love it. In Outback's defense, they did spend a lot of time and effort (swapped out my original SB to troubleshoot) working with me on the high idle draw, and concluded it's due to a ground loop in my system. Still, it is very frustrating not being able to resolve it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_ ... een%20them.
maybe the if you have a long ac wire run like between buildings to disconnect the grounding wire if is in the conduit with the AC wires. you should have separate grounding between ends and each to have a bond to neutral in the distribution panels.
there should be a bare copper grounding wire outside of the conduit(buried if possible) connecting both grounding rods at each end.
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Thanks, Ea6le-ONE - Been there, done that. I've tried just about everything, from what you've suggested to, well, so many different ground wiring configurations, can't remember them all. I even put a transformer between my Skybox and the grid, with its own neutral ground bond at the transformer, to try and isolate my system from the other grid wiring going out to my barn. No luck.

For now I'm using TOU rates to force using battery power at night. When there's no sun, that's the only time high grid use occurs. Not the best solution but relatively harmless - battery doesn't go down much (min ~80% SOC) and gets recharged the next day, just like those legendary off-grid guys do it :smile: .
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

are you using power meters? try to disconnect them and see if is lowering the power draw.
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Just to update this thread again, I have installed batteries to my Skybox and the Grid tile still occasionally shows Zeroed when it's obviously not. For example, my batteries are currently charging from the grid, and the Grid tile is Zeroed. It's night time, so no solar is present and the only power available is from the grid:
battery_chargin_grid_zeroed.png
Since my first conversation with tech support, I have not heard back from Outback Power, even though the tech stated that they would get back to me. I have heard good things about Outback Tech support on this forum, but so far their performance has been lackluster to me. It took 3 attempts in October to get someone on the phone. First call I was on hold for over half an hour and gave up. The second call I selected the option to be placed on the call back queue, but that turned out to be a lie and no one called me back. The third call I just hung on and got a tech after 20+ minute wait. No one ever replied to my original support ticket.

I just replied to the original Support case from october, and will update this thread if I get a reply.
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by murr »

I just noticed by tiles are wrong sometimes too. Here is an example where it shows over 3kW of PV not going anywhere. Looking at the graphs confirms it should be showing Selling.
Attachments
20210319_130704.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-19 OPTICSRE(3).png
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Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

In this thread viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15947&p=82605#p82605, Kim Foster says
With respect to the color of the tile, they do sometimes update slower than they should. If you see a value that looks suspicious, double-check by navigating into the tile itself and page down once past the graph. These values are more accurate when the donuts appear incorrect. Negative load indicates power flowing into the SkyBox, positive load is the opposite. The same convention is true with the grid power (negative = in and positive = out).
It seems Optics isn't as timely as the data in Skybox's tiles.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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