Grid tile not showing power properly

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apachexmd
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My RE system: Skybox with 2.9kW PV, AC coupled with 3.99kW SolarEdge array

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Got the wife to send me a photo of the Skybox screen. Seems to be correct there:
IMG_20201028_124904~2_compress24.jpg
Here's the current Optics dashboard as well, still showing zero load.
Screenshot_20201028-125108.png
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Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
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My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Greg T Fordan »

apachexmd wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:58 pm Got the wife to send me a photo of the Skybox screen. Seems to be correct there:
IMG_20201028_124904~2_compress24.jpg

Here's the current Optics dashboard as well, still showing zero load.
Screenshot_20201028-125108.png
I agree, the tiles are correct, and that 2.2kw are actually the sum of 2 negative values of L1 and L2 in the Load Device map. in Optics, I am proposing a solution of retaining that 0 load on the Optics power flow but show dynamic dots flowing thru the inverter with a value of 2.2kW, in this case. That way, the math is correct.
apache.JPG
Greg T Fordan
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Outback Power Technologies
apachexmd
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My RE system: Skybox with 2.9kW PV, AC coupled with 3.99kW SolarEdge array

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Wouldn't you want the Dashboard to match what's shown on the Skybox screen? IE the load being the sum of AC couple generation and critical loads, instead of just 0W.

0W just feels wrong to me.

Also there is still the issue of the Grid tile showing Zeroed when it's not.

And the issue of my non-critical loads (EV chargers) showing up on the load tile inappropriately.
apachexmd
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My RE system: Skybox with 2.9kW PV, AC coupled with 3.99kW SolarEdge array

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

apachexmd wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:53 pm And the issue of my non-critical loads (EV chargers) showing up on the load tile inappropriately.
So I just read this in the Skybox Programming Guide, regarding tapping on the Load tile, and hitting the 'down chevron'.
If current transducers are active (set to any option other than
NONE on page 14), the following items replace those above:
○ Total Combined load and Total Self Supply
○ Total Protected load and Total Unprotected load
○ L1 and L2 Combined load and L1 and L2 Self supply
○ L1 and L2 Protected load and L1 and L2 Unprotected load
Since I have CTs installed at my main service conductors, Skybox's grid measurements will be the load for the entire house. It appears that with external CTs installed, the "Load" tile somehow separates out protected and unprotected loads? I assume an unprotected load is just the difference between what the CTs are reading and the Load output of the Skybox?

And that's why when I turn on my EV chargers, I see it on my Load tile as well? Kinda confusing.
apachexmd
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Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

I just got off the phone with Outback and they could not provide an answer on why my Grid tile sometimes gets stuck on Zeroed. The tech support rep agreed that it was wrong and should not be Zeroed when PV is producing and selling, but could not explain why. He puts some notes on my case file and will try to escalate to engineering. I'll post updates if I get any answers.


Tech support also confirmed that when external CTs are installed, the Load tile WILL show all loads, including loads not on the Skybox. If you tap on the load tile, and hit the down chevron, it breaks down the loads between protected and unprotected loads. This explains why my EV chargers are showing up on the load tile. Again this only happens when the optional external CTs are installed. I'll have to keep an eye on this to make sure this makes sense.
Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
[***2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007-2020)]
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, ***replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Thanks for all the legwork you're doing, Apache. Hopefully all us grid-tied Skybox owners will benefit... someday.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
[***2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007-2020)]
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, ***replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Possibly a related issue. Right now I'm AC coupling about 800 watts and the load tile in Optics shows it properly, negative numbers:
Screenshot_20201030-140013_Samsung Internet.jpg
However, the dashboard indicates "powering", not AC Coupleing, and 0kw:
Screenshot_20201030-140043_Samsung Internet.jpg
And the local display for load is colored green, which typically means AC-coupled PV is greater than load - although the arrow direction seems like it should point from load to Skybox, not Skybox to load: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gg287Z ... p=drivesdk It's also erroneously indicating "powering" rather than AC coupling.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
apachexmd
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Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:07 pm
My RE system: Skybox with 2.9kW PV, AC coupled with 3.99kW SolarEdge array

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Interesting. I don't think I've seen "Powering" before.
Is that what it usually says when you are drawing from your batteries?
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
[***2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007-2020)]
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, ***replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

apachexmd wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:35 pm Interesting. I don't think I've seen "Powering" before.
Is that what it usually says when you are drawing from your batteries?
Sometimes it says AC Coupleing. I don't know which predominates.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
apachexmd
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Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:07 pm
My RE system: Skybox with 2.9kW PV, AC coupled with 3.99kW SolarEdge array

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by apachexmd »

Another day, another wrong Grid tile display. Tonight I'm seeing the Grid tile Zeroed again, with no solar production and obvious load in use.
PXL_20201118_011441203.jpg
If I click on the Grid tile and hit the down arrow, you can see that the Skybox knows there is a grid draw of 0.8kw, but it just doesn't want to show on the main screen.
PXL_20201118_011454309.jpg
Let's get this fixed Outback! I want so much to love my Skybox but with problems like this, and Mike's high idle draw, and other nagging issues, I find it hard to say I'm happy.
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
[***2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007-2020)]
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, ***replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Let's get this fixed Outback! I want so much to love my Skybox but with problems like this, and Mike's high idle draw, and other nagging issues, I find it hard to say I'm happy.
I'm with you Apache on wanting to love it. In Outback's defense, they did spend a lot of time and effort (swapped out my original SB to troubleshoot) working with me on the high idle draw, and concluded it's due to a ground loop in my system. Still, it is very frustrating not being able to resolve it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_ ... een%20them.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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EA6LE-ONE
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54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

Mike Curran wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:06 am
Let's get this fixed Outback! I want so much to love my Skybox but with problems like this, and Mike's high idle draw, and other nagging issues, I find it hard to say I'm happy.
I'm with you Apache on wanting to love it. In Outback's defense, they did spend a lot of time and effort (swapped out my original SB to troubleshoot) working with me on the high idle draw, and concluded it's due to a ground loop in my system. Still, it is very frustrating not being able to resolve it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_ ... een%20them.
maybe the if you have a long ac wire run like between buildings to disconnect the grounding wire if is in the conduit with the AC wires. you should have separate grounding between ends and each to have a bond to neutral in the distribution panels.
there should be a bare copper grounding wire outside of the conduit(buried if possible) connecting both grounding rods at each end.
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
[***2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007-2020)]
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, ***replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by Mike Curran »

Thanks, Ea6le-ONE - Been there, done that. I've tried just about everything, from what you've suggested to, well, so many different ground wiring configurations, can't remember them all. I even put a transformer between my Skybox and the grid, with its own neutral ground bond at the transformer, to try and isolate my system from the other grid wiring going out to my barn. No luck.

For now I'm using TOU rates to force using battery power at night. When there's no sun, that's the only time high grid use occurs. Not the best solution but relatively harmless - battery doesn't go down much (min ~80% SOC) and gets recharged the next day, just like those legendary off-grid guys do it :smile: .
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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EA6LE-ONE
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Grid tile not showing power properly

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

are you using power meters? try to disconnect them and see if is lowering the power draw.
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