LifePower Lifepo4 Charge Parameters

[Dnnap]

I'm preparing to install a FXR-3048A Flexpower One system in an offgrid cabin with (6) 315W panels.
I picked up one LifePower Lifepo4 48V 100Ah battery, specs below. The manual from China is vague and indicates information which conflicts with the table supplied by the supplier (table shown below). I'm trying to determine the best charge settings to start with because the recommended charge voltage and low voltage cut off seem to be extreme.
I've been researching the Simpliphi recommended charge parameters and I'm not sure if I should start there or somewhere between the two recommendations.

The manual that came with the battery lists the following, some of which differ from the information shown in the table.
Bulk voltage = 58.4V
Absorb voltage = 58.4V
Absorb end amps = 0.01C (1amp) not listed in table below
Charge current = 0.2C (20amps) conflicts with table below
Discharge cut off voltage = 40V

[raysun]

The parameters seem a bit extreme, IME.

I'm guessing (with lack of available specs) that this is a 16 series cell battery. Typical LiFePO4 parameters are 3.6V per cell = fully charged, 2.4V per cell = fully discharged. These are resting (open circuit) voltages.

58.4V = 3.65Vpc. The cells, if high quality, may withstand that, but IMO there's little benefit to stressing them that way.

40.0V = 2.40Vpc. Essentially a dead battery by most accepted standards. 32V would be deader than dead in my book. However, a discharge rate is not specified. 32V under maximum load may be equivalent to 40V open circuit. I'd never attempt to discharge a battery to that level, but I tend to be fairly conservative with an eye on reasonable battery service life.

It will not hurt the battery to use more conservative charge and discharge targets. I'd think the SimpliPhi charging/discharging voltages and rates would be a good place to start.

There are a couple of current threads on this forum that are discussing SimpliPhi charging. They are long, and a bit convoluted, but there's a lot of good information in there.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=15813

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15747

[sbrownian]

ReLion specs for a '48'v 300 amp hour pack..
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb48v300
Screen grab from the info sheet..

[Dnnap]

The parameters seem a bit extreme, IME.

I'm guessing (with lack of available specs) that this is a 16 series cell battery. Typical LiFePO4 parameters are 3.6V per cell = fully charged, 2.4V per cell = fully discharged. These are resting (open circuit) voltages.

58.4V = 3.65Vpc. The cells, if high quality, may withstand that, but IMO there's little benefit to stressing them that way.

40.0V = 2.40Vpc. Essentially a dead battery by most accepted standards. 32V would be deader than dead in my book. However, a discharge rate is not specified. 32V under maximum load may be equivalent to 40V open circuit. I'd never attempt to discharge a battery to that level, but I tend to be fairly conservative with an eye on reasonable battery service life.

It will not hurt the battery to use more conservative charge and discharge targets. I'd think the SimpliPhi charging/discharging voltages and rates would be a good place to start.

There are a couple of current threads on this forum that are discussing SimpliPhi charging. They are long, and a bit convoluted, but there's a lot of good information in there.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=15813

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15747

Thanks raysun, I agree with you. I’d prefer to stay of the safe side of the high and low voltages until I can learn the characteristics of this battery.

I read both those referenced posts along with dozens of other posts before posting here.

As for the battery specs there is a table in the manual that indicates a nominal cell voltage of 3.2v, but the table did not list a 16 cell battery.

[raysun]

3.2Vpc × 16 = 51.6V nominal.

When the FlexPower panel is installed, if the Mate is connected to a Local Area Network via its ethernet port, its internal web server can be accessed. The web site is read-only, and presents a wealth of operational data, updated in near real time.

I use the Summary (main) page, and the Meters page to keep tabs on battery charging, especially as it approaches termination voltage if using 56.4V as the target. When fully charged, the charging current should decline rapidly.

[Dnnap]

3.2Vpc × 16 = 51.6V nominal.

When the FlexPower panel is installed, if the Mate is connected to a Local Area Network via its ethernet port, its internal web server can be accessed. The web site is read-only, and presents a wealth of operational data, updated in near real time.

I use the Summary (main) page, and the Meters page to keep tabs on battery charging, especially as it approaches termination voltage if using 56.4V as the target. When fully charged, the charging current should decline rapidly.

I found it strange the table from the battery manual didn’t list a 16 cell.
Unfortunately I won’t have internet access at the cabin to take advantage of the Optics RE other than a weak cell signal. I do plan on testing the system here at home for a few week, which does have internet connection.

[raysun]

3.2Vpc × 16 = 51.6V nominal.

When the FlexPower panel is installed, if the Mate is connected to a Local Area Network via its ethernet port, its internal web server can be accessed. The web site is read-only, and presents a wealth of operational data, updated in near real time.

I use the Summary (main) page, and the Meters page to keep tabs on battery charging, especially as it approaches termination voltage if using 56.4V as the target. When fully charged, the charging current should decline rapidly.

I found it strange the table from the battery manual didn’t list a 16 cell.
Unfortunately I won’t have internet access at the cabin to take advantage of the Optics RE other than a weak cell signal. I do plan on testing the system here at home for a few week, which does have internet connection.

Most battery vendors don't list the internal cell configuration for their lithium batteries.

The local web server essentially shows much of the same data as Optics, albeit in read-only text and simple graphics. It doesn't need an internet connection. In fact, with the proper ethernet cable, a tablet, laptop or pc could be directly connected. Its a little easier to see whats going on than navigating the Mate's display.

[Dnnap]

Nice to know, thanks raysun. I was not aware of that option.
Do I need a specific software on my laptop to view the data after connecting the Ethernet cable to the Mate3s ?

[sbrownian]

Nice to know, thanks raysun. I was not aware of that option.
Do I need a specific software on my laptop to view the data after connecting the Ethernet cable to the Mate3s ?

Nope. Just a web browser. If you don't have a router to hand it an IP address, you will have to manually configure one in the Mate, and then put the laptop on the same subnet.

I forget if the Mate defaults to DHCP or not. If not, read what the Mate says is it's address and subnet, and set the laptop to the same address, but with the last octet off by one number or so.

If it is set to DHCP and you don't have a router, you will have to manually enter an IP address and subnet mask.

If it is set to DHCP and you DO have a router, you will have to determine what address the Mate was given. Look through the menu and it will list out what it was assigned.

IE: If the Mate is 192.168.1.50 and the subnet is 255.255.255.0 then put the laptop at 192.168.1.51 and the same subnet mask.

( You can put the laptop at 192.168.1.<<something here between 2 and 253, but NOT the number you picked for the Mate>> )

[Dnnap]

ReLion specs for a '48'v 300 amp hour pack..
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb48v300
Screen grab from the info sheet..

sbrownian, are you recommending I use the relion charge specifications?

[sbrownian]

ReLion specs for a '48'v 300 amp hour pack..
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb48v300
Screen grab from the info sheet..

sbrownian, are you recommending I use the relion charge specifications?

Nope. Just listing it for reference.

[sbrownian]

3.2Vpc × 16 = 51.6V nominal.

When the FlexPower panel is installed, if the Mate is connected to a Local Area Network via its ethernet port, its internal web server can be accessed. The web site is read-only, and presents a wealth of operational data, updated in near real time.

I use the Summary (main) page, and the Meters page to keep tabs on battery charging, especially as it approaches termination voltage if using 56.4V as the target. When fully charged, the charging current should decline rapidly.

I found it strange the table from the battery manual didn’t list a 16 cell.
Unfortunately I won’t have internet access at the cabin to take advantage of the Optics RE other than a weak cell signal. I do plan on testing the system here at home for a few week, which does have internet connection.

Most battery vendors don't list the internal cell configuration for their lithium batteries.

The local web server essentially shows much of the same data as Optics, albeit in read-only text and simple graphics. It doesn't need an internet connection. In fact, with the proper ethernet cable, a tablet, laptop or pc could be directly connected. Its a little easier to see whats going on than navigating the Mate's display.

And I like to get an .xml 'dump' for backup and reference as well....

[raysun]

Nice to know, thanks raysun. I was not aware of that option.
Do I need a specific software on my laptop to view the data after connecting the Ethernet cable to the Mate3s ?

Nope. Just a web browser. If you don't have a router to hand it an IP address, you will have to manually configure one in the Mate, and then put the laptop on the same subnet.

I forget if the Mate defaults to DHCP or not. If not, read what the Mate says is it's address and subnet, and set the laptop to the same address, but with the last octet off by one number or so.

If it is set to DHCP and you don't have a router, you will have to manually enter an IP address and subnet mask.

If it is set to DHCP and you DO have a router, you will have to determine what address the Mate was given. Look through the menu and it will list out what it was assigned.

IE: If the Mate is 192.168.1.50 and the subnet is 255.255.255.0 then put the laptop at 192.168.1.51 and the same subnet mask.

( You can put the laptop at 192.168.1.<<something here between 2 and 253, but NOT the number you picked for the Mate>> )

I believe the Mate has 192.168.0.64 as its default address. It has DHCP enabled by default as well, but I recommend disabling it and entering the IP information manually.

[Dnnap]

Nice to know, thanks raysun. I was not aware of that option.
Do I need a specific software on my laptop to view the data after connecting the Ethernet cable to the Mate3s ?

Nope. Just a web browser. If you don't have a router to hand it an IP address, you will have to manually configure one in the Mate, and then put the laptop on the same subnet.

I forget if the Mate defaults to DHCP or not. If not, read what the Mate says is it's address and subnet, and set the laptop to the same address, but with the last octet off by one number or so.

If it is set to DHCP and you don't have a router, you will have to manually enter an IP address and subnet mask.

If it is set to DHCP and you DO have a router, you will have to determine what address the Mate was given. Look through the menu and it will list out what it was assigned.

IE: If the Mate is 192.168.1.50 and the subnet is 255.255.255.0 then put the laptop at 192.168.1.51 and the same subnet mask.

( You can put the laptop at 192.168.1.<<something here between 2 and 253, but NOT the number you picked for the Mate>> )

I believe the Mate has 192.168.0.64 as its default address. It has DHCP enabled by default as well, but I recommend disabling it and entering the IP information manually.

Understood, thanks rayson that will come in handy. I will use a small (Low power consumption) dedicated netbook for this. I have a few kicking around that I can use. Eventually if I get satellite internet at the cabin I will setup OpticsRE.

[raysun]

Nope. Just a web browser. If you don't have a router to hand it an IP address, you will have to manually configure one in the Mate, and then put the laptop on the same subnet.

I forget if the Mate defaults to DHCP or not. If not, read what the Mate says is it's address and subnet, and set the laptop to the same address, but with the last octet off by one number or so.

If it is set to DHCP and you don't have a router, you will have to manually enter an IP address and subnet mask.

If it is set to DHCP and you DO have a router, you will have to determine what address the Mate was given. Look through the menu and it will list out what it was assigned.

IE: If the Mate is 192.168.1.50 and the subnet is 255.255.255.0 then put the laptop at 192.168.1.51 and the same subnet mask.

( You can put the laptop at 192.168.1.<<something here between 2 and 253, but NOT the number you picked for the Mate>> )

I believe the Mate has 192.168.0.64 as its default address. It has DHCP enabled by default as well, but I recommend disabling it and entering the IP information manually.

Understood, thanks rayson that will come in handy. I will use a small (Low power consumption) dedicated netbook for this. I have a few kicking around that I can use. Eventually if I get satellite internet at the cabin I will setup OpticsRE.

If you install an SD card in the Mate's reader, you can configure the Mate to write log data to it in 15 minute increments. Useful for debugging/performance analysis. It will write in XLS format so can be downloaded into a spreadsheet app. Smaller capacity cards seem to work better, and hold a ton of log data.

[Dnnap]

Yes, the Mate3s came with a Kingston 16gb SD card.

[raysun]

That works.

[sbrownian]

I believe the Mate has 192.168.0.64 as its default address. It has DHCP enabled by default as well, but I recommend disabling it and entering the IP information manually.

That sounds familiar. I changed the port # so I could map it outside though..

[Dnnap]

I'm starting to wire the Flexpower One and noticed the quick start guide shows a PV negative bus bar, which isn't there.
Is there an updated quick start guide available?

[raysun]

I'm starting to wire the Flexpower One and noticed the quick start guide shows a PV negative bus bar, which isn't there.
Is there an updated quick start guide available?

No sure about update, but PV - and BAT - are common in the FM charge controllers. Bat Neg Bus Bar services all.

[Dnnap]

I'm starting to wire the Flexpower One and noticed the quick start guide shows a PV negative bus bar, which isn't there.
Is there an updated quick start guide available?

No sure about update, but PV - and BAT - are common in the FM charge controllers. Bat Neg Bus Bar services all.

Thanks raysun. The newer version of the quick start guide shown in the upper image and the older version in the lower image.
My Flexpower One came with the quick start guide (newer version upper image), but without the bus bar. I'll be wiring as per the older quick start guide.