Inverter Critical Error Status

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Shiante
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My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

For more information:

https://merkasol.com/WebRoot/StoreLES/S ... Manual.pdf
Shiante wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:13 am I have settled for the US3000 Lithium Ion battery with the following specs:

Screen Shot 2021-01-29 at 17.54.28.png

Before I pay for it, I have been asked to confirm if it works with my inverter (GVFX3048E) and charge controllers (FM80).

One specific question that the supplier asked me was the communication between the battery and the inverter. My power system was delivered with an RTS cable.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Shiante wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:13 am I have settled for the US3000 Lithium Ion battery with the following specs:

Screen Shot 2021-01-29 at 17.54.28.png

Before I pay for it, I have been asked to confirm if it works with my inverter (GVFX3048E) and charge controllers (FM80).

One specific question that the supplier asked me was the communication between the battery and the inverter. My power system was delivered with an RTS cable.
For charging, the "communication" between Outback inverters and the battery is strictly via sensing battery voltage. The three-stage charging profile can be set to Absorb and Float voltages. Also, maximum charge current can be limited to battery specifications. The RTS cable is unlikely to be used, as most lithium batteries do not use temperature-compensated charging.

The FLEXnet DC battery monitor in the system can track battery State of Charge, as well as support certain advanced battery charging functions. It can also be programmed to shut the inverter off via its AUX relay in the event of low battery and high battery voltage.
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:22 am For charging, the "communication" between Outback inverters and the battery is strictly via sensing battery voltage. The three-stage charging profile can be set to Absorb and Float voltages. Also, maximum charge current can be limited to battery specifications. The RTS cable is unlikely to be used, as most lithium batteries do not use temperature-compensated charging.

The FLEXnet DC battery monitor in the system can track battery State of Charge, as well as support certain advanced battery charging functions. It can also be programmed to shut the inverter off via its AUX relay in the event of low battery and high battery voltage.
Below are photos of the FLEXnet DC on its own and in its place relative to the other components.
Screen Shot 2021-01-29 at 18.48.50.png
raysun
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REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Yes. Looks like the standard FP1 configuration.

What Low Battery Cutoff and High Battetlry Cutoff is the manufacturer specifying?
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:58 am Yes. Looks like the standard FP1 configuration.

What Low Battery Cutoff and High Battetlry Cutoff is the manufacturer specifying?
Does the information below answer your question?
Discharge Voltage: 45 - 53.5
Charge Voltage: 52.5 - 53.5
raysun
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Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Shiante wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:49 am
raysun wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:58 am Yes. Looks like the standard FP1 configuration.

What Low Battery Cutoff and High Battetlry Cutoff is the manufacturer specifying?
Does the information below answer your question?
Discharge Voltage: 45 - 53.5
Charge Voltage: 52.5 - 53.5
Not exactly. The LBCO would be the absolute minimum voltage the battery must not go below. The HBCO is the absolute maximum the battery must not rise above.

They would be the voltages at which the inverter should shut down to avoid battery damage.
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

I have bumped into a Lithium Application Note published by OutBack (https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/ ... _note.pdf ).

On Page 2, it is written "GTFX/GVFX/GFX series: Not compatible" Mine is a GVFX3048E. This kind of threw me off.

Now I have bumped into someone who is using a KiloVault Lithium-Ion battery (7.5KW) on an Outback FlexPower One - 48V FP1 FXR3048A-01 (https://diysolarforum.com/threads/outba ... ies.15271/)

So I am now considering the KiloVault battery.

My questions are: How does a 3KW inverter work with a 7.5Kw battery? It is not a waste? Also would my 15 x 250W panels charge fully the 7.5Kw storage?
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:11 am
Shiante wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:49 am
raysun wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:58 am Yes. Looks like the standard FP1 configuration.

What Low Battery Cutoff and High Battetlry Cutoff is the manufacturer specifying?
Does the information below answer your question?
Discharge Voltage: 45 - 53.5
Charge Voltage: 52.5 - 53.5
Not exactly. The LBCO would be the absolute minimum voltage the battery must not go below. The HBCO is the absolute maximum the battery must not rise above.

They would be the voltages at which the inverter should shut down to avoid battery damage.
The KiloVault HAB has the following specifications:

High Voltage Cutout: 60.0 ± .5 V (not a set point)
Low Voltage Cutout: 48.0 V (not a set point)

Will this help in setting my OutBack Power System

Screen Shot 2021-01-31 at 18.23.46.png
raysun
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Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Shiante wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:20 am I have bumped into a Lithium Application Note published by OutBack (https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/ ... _note.pdf ).

On Page 2, it is written "GTFX/GVFX/GFX series: Not compatible" Mine is a GVFX3048E. This kind of threw me off.

Now I have bumped into someone who is using a KiloVault Lithium-Ion battery (7.5KW) on an Outback FlexPower One - 48V FP1 FXR3048A-01 (https://diysolarforum.com/threads/outba ... ies.15271/)

So I am now considering the KiloVault battery.

My questions are: How does a 3KW inverter work with a 7.5Kw battery? It is not a waste? Also would my 15 x 250W panels charge fully the 7.5Kw storage?
Yes, the FX series FX/VFX/GVFX are not compatible with most lithium batteries for the reason stated previously - lack of LBCO/HBCO that fits the battery's voltage profile. The work-around is using the FLEXnet DC to manage inverter shutdown in the extreme voltage events.

The KiloVault HAB 7.5 is a 7.5kWH (kilowatt hour) battery. kWH is a measure of storage capacity. A 3kW inverter, running at maximum output, could drain the battery in roughly 2 hours, if the battery could sustain a 3kW rate of discharge. It's maximum discharge rate is 60A, so at 50V it could sustain 60A x 50V = 3000W, so its a match to the inverter. Typically one would not be running the inverter at full power, so if, say, the average output was 300W, the battery could supply it for roughly 20 hours.

The 3.75kW solar array, putting out 50% of rated capacity, could charge the battery in roughly 4 hours. Depending on location, it may be enough to maintain the battery.

Is the system on OpticsRE? Can the historical consumption and charging data be analyzed? It would give a clearer picture of the battery capacity needed.
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:08 pm
Yes, the FX series FX/VFX/GVFX are not compatible with most lithium batteries for the reason stated previously - lack of LBCO/HBCO that fits the battery's voltage profile. The work-around is using the FLEXnet DC to manage inverter shutdown in the extreme voltage events.
.....

Is the system on OpticsRE? Can the historical consumption and charging data be analyzed? It would give a clearer picture of the battery capacity needed.
The KiloVault HAB has the following specifications:

High Voltage Cutout: 60.0 ± .5 V (not a set point)
Low Voltage Cutout: 48.0 V (not a set point)

Will this help in setting my OutBack Power System

I do not know what OpticsRE is.

My installation is brand-new and yet to be commissioned. It has no historical consumption.
raysun
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Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Shiante wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:26 pm
raysun wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:08 pm
Yes, the FX series FX/VFX/GVFX are not compatible with most lithium batteries for the reason stated previously - lack of LBCO/HBCO that fits the battery's voltage profile. The work-around is using the FLEXnet DC to manage inverter shutdown in the extreme voltage events.
.....

Is the system on OpticsRE? Can the historical consumption and charging data be analyzed? It would give a clearer picture of the battery capacity needed.
The KiloVault HAB has the following specifications:

High Voltage Cutout: 60.0 ± .5 V (not a set point)
Low Voltage Cutout: 48.0 V (not a set point)

Will this help in setting my OutBack Power System

I do not know what OpticsRE is.

My installation is brand-new and yet to be commissioned. It has no historical consumption.
Yes, those values are important for battery protection.

The FX/VFX/GVFX series inverters are actually discontinued (and have been for many years.) FXR/VFXR series are the successors. The VFXR3048E is the direct successor to the GVFX3048E and has 15 years worth of refinements, including more sophisticated operating modes (7 in all), and native support for charging and using lithium batteries. The GVFX3048E will need "work arounds" to provide lithium battery support.

When I upgraded to a lithium battery, I replaced my perfectly good 5 year old FX3048T with an FXR3048A expressly for the native lithium battery support.

OpticsRE is Outback Power's cloud based management and monitoring application. A system with access to the internet can connect to OpticsRE, and the application can be accessed anywhere using a web browser. Those of us with Outback systems rely on OpticsRE almost exclusively. More info: https://www.opticsre.com/
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:41 pm
The VFXR3048E is the direct successor to the GVFX3048E and has 15 years worth of refinements,......
Gosh...I bought a dinosaur.
Shiante
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

Shiante wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:22 am
raysun wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:41 pm
The VFXR3048E is the direct successor to the GVFX3048E and has 15 years worth of refinements,......
Gosh...I bought a dinosaur.
I spoke to my supplier who was confident that my inverter is not a GVFX3048E. When I presented the invoices, they sent a technician who came to inspect it. He opened the cover written OutBack and confirmed that it is a VFXR3048E and that its Advanced Battery Charging (ABC) supports leading-edge battery technologies, including lithium-ion.

So, I am very relieved and I now must establish whether the KiloVault HAB will work with my Outback power system.
Screen Shot 2021-02-01 at 12.22.22.png
raysun
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Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Shiante wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:34 am
Shiante wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:22 am
raysun wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:41 pm
The VFXR3048E is the direct successor to the GVFX3048E and has 15 years worth of refinements,......
Gosh...I bought a dinosaur.
I spoke to my supplier who was confident that my inverter is not a GVFX3048E. When I presented the invoices, they sent a technician who came to inspect it. He opened the cover written OutBack and confirmed that it is a VFXR3048E and that its Advanced Battery Charging (ABC) supports leading-edge battery technologies, including lithium-ion.

So, I am very relieved and I now must establish whether the KiloVault HAB will work with my Outback power system.

Screen Shot 2021-02-01 at 12.22.22.png
That's great news! The VFXR3048E should work with the KiloVault HAB series without issue.

The only question is whether the 7.5kWH capacity will be sufficient to power the intended loads for the duration the system will be running on battery.

Will the system be grid connected?

Will there be a backup generator? What model?
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