Inverter Critical Error Status

A place where users can meetup with other FlexPower One users and can find support for one another. A great place for people who have not purchased the FlexPower One yet to look up information.
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

I was excited to receive my brand new Flex Power One Pre-wired Outback Power System. I connected the battery array and the AC-In (I am yet to connect the PV array).

Upon energizing, the Battery Status indicated RED. This is correct because on checking the battery, it is 20V.

However, it is the Inverter Status indicating permanent (NOT flashing) RED. This means a Critical Error and that I must contact Outback. My question is whether this is related to the low voltage? Will this Critical Error go once the battery is fully charged to 48V?

Major system components:
1. Inverter/Charger : GVFX3048E, S/N GV1513F0100125
2. Charge Controller: FM80-150DC, S/N FM80S84736
3. MATE3
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by sbrownian »

Please complete your equipment profile.
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
EMCF
Forum Guru
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:22 am
My RE system: FX3048, 4 200a batteries, FM60. 3 kw array

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by EMCF »

That Inverter status error is related to your battery status error.
Why is your battery voltage sank to a very low 20V when it is supposed to power a 48V nominal inverter? By the way, for now you can't use the AC IN to charge the battery. You must use an external charger or you can try to hook up the PV to your CC to bring up battery voltage, if the battery is still ok.
Outback Fanboy at your service
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by sbrownian »

Again, finish filling out your equipment list.

Most of us don't have use of a magic NSA spy satellite to see what kind of batteries you actually have..

(Or even a nosy neighbor...)
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

sbrownian wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:32 am Again, finish filling out your equipment list.

Most of us don't have use of a magic NSA spy satellite to see what kind of batteries you actually have..
I was conned and bought 'brand new' 4 Gel Batteries, 12V 120AH. However, I am considering replacing them with Lithium-Ion batteries. I am getting so many opinions and this (PylonTech US3000C 3.5kWh Lithium-ion Solar Battery) is the most recommended. I will decide soon.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

However, I am considering replacing them with Lithium-Ion batteries. I am getting so many opinions and this (PylonTech US3000C 3.5kWh Lithium-ion Solar Battery) is the most recommended.
The closest I've come to South African products is my back yard full of Sugarbush. If there is a large user community for the battery, then its a worthy consideration. If knowledge is power, then knowledge on how the power is stored is doubly so.

One note for consideration. The older FX/VFX/GVFX inverters have a range of Low Battery Cutoff voltage that doesn't align with most LiFePO4 batteries, and don't have a native setting for High Battery Cutoff. Both LBCO and HBCO are important for battery protection - and critical for protecting the battery warranty in many cases.

If the battery in question requires the inverter comply with LBCO/HBCO settings and the GVFX doesn't fill the bill, you may be able to provide the proper cutoff protection if there's a FLEXnet DC on the FP1 panel. Its Aux settings can be programmed for it, and the relay used to drive the inverter ON/OFF terminals.
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

This is the FP1 panel. Is there a FLEXnet DC ?
FP1 Panel.jpeg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Shiante wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:49 pm This is the FP1 panel. Is there a FLEXnet DC ?
FP1 Panel.jpeg
I'd expect so. That nondescript plastic box wedged in next to the Hub looks to be the right size. Does it have 4 LEDs on it? Does the system report battery State of Charge?
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:56 pm
Shiante wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:49 pm This is the FP1 panel. Is there a FLEXnet DC ?
FP1 Panel.jpeg
I'd expect so. That nondescript plastic box wedged in next to the Hub looks to be the right size. Does it have 4 LEDs on it? Does the system report battery State of Charge?
Yes, it has 4 LEDs on it. The system is currently de-energised.
FLEXnet DC.jpeg
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

One note for consideration. The older FX/VFX/GVFX inverters have a range of Low Battery Cutoff voltage that doesn't align with most LiFePO4 batteries, and don't have a native setting for High Battery Cutoff. Both LBCO and HBCO are important for battery protection - and critical for protecting the battery warranty in many cases.

If the battery in question requires the inverter comply with LBCO/HBCO settings and the GVFX doesn't fill the bill, you may be able to provide the proper cutoff protection if there's a FLEXnet DC on the FP1 panel. Its Aux settings can be programmed for it, and the relay used to drive the inverter ON/OFF terminals.
Thank you very much for this information. I would never have known about LBCO/HBCO with respect to the model/version of my inverter.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by sbrownian »

FNDC is the box with the twisted pair going in it...
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

I have mounted 12 solar panels of 250W each.

Please help me string the panels to charge a 48V battery bank, with a Flex80 charge controller.

Below are the specs for each panel.

Solar Panel Spec.jpeg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

The FM80 is rated at 150V maximum input. The solar panels are rated at V(oc) = 37.6V.

A safe configuration is to connect 3 panels in series. The resulting string voltage = 112.8V (open circuit) leaves sufficient margin for high solar irradience in cold ambient temperatures where V(oc) may rise above the STC rating on the label.

4 strings would be created and connected in parallel using a combiner box with 4 15A circuit breakers to be able to disconnect the strings in the array.
Last edited by raysun on Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Eight Rolls S-550 (2 strings, total ~800Ah @ 24V)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC and Trimetric
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by provo »

Shiante wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:49 pm
This is the FP1 panel. Is there a FLEXnet DC ?
Here it is:

FP1 Panel.jpeg
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

Provo, I see it. Thank you.
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am The FM80 is rated at 150V maximum input. The solar panels are rated at V(oc) = 37.6V.

A safe configuration is to connect 3 panels in series. The resulting string voltage = 112.8V (open circuit) leaves sufficient margin for high solar irradience in cold ambient temperatures where V(oc) may rise above the STC rating on the label.

4 strings would be created and connected in parallel using a combiner box with 4 15A circuit breakers to be able to disconnect the strings in the array.
This is so helpful. Thank you a lot Raysun.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

The other FM80 rated maximum is 80A charge current. The maximum array power for a 48V battery = 48V x 80A = 3840W nomal. A 5th string of three 250W panels could be easily accomodated.
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

raysun wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:46 am The other FM80 rated maximum is 80A charge current. The maximum array power for a 48V battery = 48V x 80A = 3840W nomal. A 5th string of three 250W panels could be easily accomodated.
I have bought 3 more panels for the 5th string. But I have not connected them, pending validation of the block diagram below.
Screen Shot 2021-01-28 at 16.34.59.png
Also, is it the function of the charge controller (FM80) to charge the battery only up to 48V and not to 112.8V of the PV array?
User avatar
Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Greg T Fordan »

With the added 3 more panels the total wattage of the PV array is (112.8 * 44.05) = 4968W, about 1000W over the recommended 4000W for a 48V system.
But it should still be OK, as long as the Voc is less than 150VDC. The system should limit the charging current to a max of 80A anyways.

"Also, is it the function of the charge controller (FM80) to charge the battery only up to 48V and not to 112.8V of the PV array?"

48V is just a nominal voltage name and may actually equal to a voltage as high as 54V. On its absorb or equalizing state it can be up to 57.6 or 58V.

In a theory assuming there is no heat loss or energy loss, the MPPT works like (PV voltage*PV current) = (Battery voltage*battery charging current)
Let's say on a particular day, your PV array is generating 100V and 40A. Let's assume the battery voltage is 50V. Ignoring heat loss/energy loss, the resulting battery charging current is 100*40/50 = 80A
Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by raysun »

Greg T Fordan wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:01 am With the added 3 more panels the total wattage of the PV array is (112.8 * 44.05) = 4968W, about 1000W over the recommended 4000W for a 48V system.
But it should still be OK, as long as the Voc is less than 150VDC. The system should limit the charging current to a max of 80A anyways.

"Also, is it the function of the charge controller (FM80) to charge the battery only up to 48V and not to 112.8V of the PV array?"

48V is just a nominal voltage name and may actually equal to a voltage as high as 54V. On its absorb or equalizing state it can be up to 57.6 or 58V.

In a theory assuming there is no heat loss or energy loss, the MPPT works like (PV voltage*PV current) = (Battery voltage*battery charging current)
Let's say on a particular day, your PV array is generating 100V and 40A. Let's assume the battery voltage is 50V. Ignoring heat loss/energy loss, the resulting battery charging current is 100*40/50 = 80A
All my years of sleeping through math class frequently come back to haunt me. Technical specs and real-world applications do as well. I always look in the back of the book to see if the answers are there.

Looking at the label, the "rated power" of the panel is 250W. 250W × 15 = 3750W.

Looking at V(oc), and I(sc), The array calculation is V(oc) x 3 = 112.8 and I(sc) x 5 = 44.05. 112.8V x 44.05A = 4968W. In the real world, can the panels reach both Open Circuit voltage and Short Circuit current simultaneously?
User avatar
Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Greg T Fordan »

You are actually more correct there raysun ;-) with your 250*15= 3750 total Pmax, and that makes shiante's system in even safer limits.

"In the real world, can the panels reach both Open Circuit voltage and Short Circuit current simultaneously?"

When the panels are connected together, either in series or parallel, and then further connected to the PV-IN of a charge controller, I don't think they can reach the Voc as stated in the label.
Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

Greg T Fordan wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:32 am You are actually more correct there raysun ;-) with your 250*15= 3750 total Pmax, and that makes shiante's system in even safer limits.
This means I am good to go. It is 8PM here in South Africa. Tomorrow I will connect my panels.

Once again, thank you very much Raysun and Greg.

I will keep you updated.
User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Czar
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

Be sure you switch first the battery breaker and the charger is starting up. if nothing on the screen of the charger, then you should not turn the PV breaker on. Probably will be safer to charge each battery with a standard car battery charger.

not sure on gel batteries once they go under 10V if they are still good.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by sbrownian »

EA6LE-ONE wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:01 pm Be sure you switch first the battery breaker and the charger is starting up. if nothing on the screen of the charger, then you should not turn the PV breaker on. Probably will be safer to charge each battery with a standard car battery charger.

not sure on gel batteries once they go under 10V if they are still good.
Yeah, that's getting dicey. Depends on how good they are to begin with, and how long they've sat while discharged.

Me, I'd do what you suggested, charge each one up, let them sit for a bit, and see what the 'resting' voltage shows.

Anything below 12.8v resting open is suspect in my book.

With GELL CELLS, do NOT overcharge or leave them at a high float for any length of time. Gas bubbles can form and displace the gelled electrolyte, and it generally doesn't 'move back' in contact with the plates. AGM is different. There is fluid suspended in a fiberglass mat that will 'wick' back in if a bubble of gas displaces it.
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
Shiante
Forum Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am
My RE system: FLEXpower, Pre-wired,GVFX3048E

Re: Inverter Critical Error Status

Post by Shiante »

I have settled for the US3000 Lithium Ion battery with the following specs:
Screen Shot 2021-01-29 at 17.54.28.png
Before I pay for it, I have been asked to confirm if it works with my inverter (GVFX3048E) and charge controllers (FM80).

One specific question that the supplier asked me was the communication between the battery and the inverter. My power system was delivered with an RTS cable.
Post Reply