Backup not coming up

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dking
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My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
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30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

Team,
I upgraded from an GVFX 3524 to the Radian 8048 and the Mate3s using the two FlexMax 80's I already had.

Everything has been operating perfectly with my panels, battery charging etc. We experienced a power outage today but my inverter never made the switch and my critical circuits did not stay up. One more piece of information is that when the power did come back up it took 5 minutes for the critical circuits to come back on even though the main breaker panel was live again. I've researched this forum for close options but haven't found anything that completely covers what I am experiencing.

I am running in Grid Tie mode with auto switching turned off. I keep the batteries for backup and winter just hit this morning so I need to figure this one out, anyone have any insight that I could look in.

No HBX Mode
No Schedules
Auto Grid tie is off

thank you in advance!

Doug
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EA6LE-ONE
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

We need more info about the battery.in what mode are you running your inverter?
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dking
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Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

Batteries are Trojan T105's in 1 string for 48 volts.

The inverter is in Grid Tie mode because I sell back to the grid. All of the battery info seems to be good for charging parameters.

I am an open book and clearly willing to stipulate I don't have the answer so thank you for stepping in so quick to help..

Doug
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Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by Mike Curran »

I am running in Grid Tie mode with auto switching turned off. 
What is "auto switching"? I can't find any reference to that in the 8048 manual.
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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EA6LE-ONE
Forum Czar
Posts: 792
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

the battery is a bit small for the radian. if you have a significant load when the ac is out the voltage might go under the low voltage cut out and will shut down the inverter.
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dking
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

I knew the battery string was a little small and I am in the process of doubling it but there is almost no load on the critical circuits. I was curious of the batteries would keep it from making the switch but if there is no load to speak of then I'm still in the same position I think.

Thank you for the replies all
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EA6LE-ONE
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Posts: 792
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

try to disconnect the ac and see what is the battery voltage when the radian should switch to inverting. you might have a bad battery as well.
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Re: Backup not coming up

Post by JRHill »

dking wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:03 pm I knew the battery string was a little small and I am in the process of doubling it
How do you plan to go about this?
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EA6LE-ONE
Forum Czar
Posts: 792
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

JRHill wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:55 am
dking wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:03 pm I knew the battery string was a little small and I am in the process of doubling it
How do you plan to go about this?
he will have to replace the old battery with a new one, not add to it.
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dking
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Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

The plan is tonight when solar is not producing to flip the main breaker and see if the critical circuits stay up. Right now the voltages of the batteries are good according to the Flexnet and I also put a meter on it to verify what the inverter is seeing is accurate and it matches.

The production is working great and I can see power going to my critical circuits as well as back on the grid. I don't think my batteries are bad but a setting is off somewhere, there are just so many to choose from...

he will have to replace the old battery with a new one, not add to it.
The batteries are old enough that I need to not only replace the ones I have but also double the number so I will go from 8 to 16 new batteries at one time.

Thank you again!
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dking
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Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

I flipped the breaker in my main house panel and the critical circuits immediately went offline. When I flipped the breaker back on it was a smooth 5 min and the circuits came back on, you could hear the inverter click over.

Can you think of any settings that could be keeping me from working correctly?

Appreciate everyone's knowledge and experience.

Doug
JRHill
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Re: Backup not coming up

Post by JRHill »

dking wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:12 pm I flipped the breaker in my main house panel and the critical circuits immediately went offline. When I flipped the breaker back on it was a smooth 5 min and the circuits came back on, you could hear the inverter click over.

Can you think of any settings that could be keeping me from working correctly?

Appreciate everyone's knowledge and experience.

Doug
There is a bunch that comes to mind. Yeah, your batteries are to small. But when you have to go to batteries does your household know how to live that way?

The best setting I can think of is to shut down circuit breakers to all but freezers, fridges, some lights etc. If someone complains then that's where your power might be going.
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dking
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Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

When I ran the test tonight there was only a few LED lights on so not sure what's going on. We have had our old GVFX inverter on these same batteries and we only use them in backup power situations so they have been great.

I checked the voltage of the batteries when the main power breaker was off and it showed 50.8 volts and the Flexnet still showed 100%

Still digging in...

keep those recommendations coming
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EA6LE-ONE
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Posts: 792
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

turn off the breaker to critical load and then turn off the ac in. while you do that have the voltmeter on the battery or the inverter input from battery. if goes off then turn the breaker from inverter to battery off wait few minutes and then turn it on. normally the inverter should energize. if not that mean the battery is dead.
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Mike Curran
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Posts: 2770
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by Mike Curran »

Mike Curran wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:33 pm
I am running in Grid Tie mode with auto switching turned off. 
What is "auto switching"? I can't find any reference to that in the 8048 manual.
The reason I asked this is that whatever it is, it could be the reason your backup isn't kicking in.

Also if you're still puzzling about the 5 minute connect delay, that is the default setting for reconnecting to the grid after an outage.
Screenshot_20211030-091807_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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dking
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Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

Hi Team!

Well it's been a few months and I am still experiencing the same problem but I have taken some action. I knew I was on borrowed time so I ordered 8 KiloVault PLC 2100 batteries and have them installed. It took several months to get them delivered from the time I ordered them.

What are the steps to recreate the issue...

If I lose power from the AC grid my 8048 does not function from the batteries. Once the power from the Power Grid comes back online it takes about 5 minutes for the system to put power on my critical circuits.
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Mike Curran
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Posts: 2770
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, net metering w/backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by Mike Curran »

dking wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:22 pmI am running in Grid Tie mode with auto switching turned off.
I don't know what auto switching is. But from the sound of it, having it switched off could very well be the reason your system doesn't switch over to backup your critical loads. Whatever it is, maybe try turning it on?
https://ei.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
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dking
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
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Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

Mike Curran wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:50 pm
dking wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:22 pmI am running in Grid Tie mode with auto switching turned off.
I don't know what auto switching is. But from the sound of it, having it switched off could very well be the reason your system doesn't switch over to backup your critical loads. Whatever it is, maybe try turning it on?
hi Mike, Thanks for the reply!

Let me clarify because words are important. I when I say auto switching I am referring to my inverter kicking over from Grid Power to battery power and keeping my critical circuits online. When grid power goes off lets say because of a storm my inverter does not use the batteries connected. When grid power comes back on there is about a 5 minute delay for my critical circuits to come back online.
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Re: Backup not coming up

Post by Greg T Fordan »

hi dking,
Maybe your inverter is Off. Turn it ON. Then test by disconnecting your main breaker. The power transfer from grid to battery should be seamless. Your critical loads will not lose power.
You call it "auto switching" not working. I call it "your inverter is turned Off" :smile:
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Re: Backup not coming up

Post by JRHill »

Wow, dking, you are favored.

Many of us would like to get OB to chime in on an issue. You Did It!
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
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Re: Backup not coming up

Post by raysun »

It sounds like the inverter recognizes when the grid (AC IN) is dropped, but not that it has a load (AC OUT) to feed.

Is the inverter status = ON?
Screenshot_20220120-134952_Firefox.jpg
Perhaps using another Mode besides Grid Tie would give a hint.

Maybe try UPS, or even Support, as a test.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by raysun »

LOL! Greg beat me to it.
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dking
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:06 am
My RE system: Radian 8048
Mate 3s
2 Flexmax 80's
Flexnet DC
30 250 Watt Panels
KiloVault PLC 2100 (8)

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by dking »

raysun wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:52 pm It sounds like the inverter recognizes when the grid (AC IN) is dropped, but not that it has a load (AC OUT) to feed.

Is the inverter status = ON?

Screenshot_20220120-134952_Firefox.jpg

Perhaps using another Mode besides Grid Tie would give a hint.

Maybe try UPS, or even Support, as a test.
In the humblest and most incredibly embarrassed tone I can say this was exactly the problem...

Is the inverter status = ON? > The answer was no but once turned on things worked exactly how they are supposed to.

I can't begin to explain how ridiculous I now feel for not seeing this sooner... I checked all the wiring, the batteries but simply reading AND understanding the instructions would have done it...

Thank you for the help team and for being patient with folks like me....

Doug
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Re: Backup not coming up

Post by JRHill »

Doug, 14 years in and I still have those instances. I wonder how many people have saved $$$$ by sharing a problem on this forum by just asking.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Backup not coming up

Post by raysun »

It never hurts to check all system components periodically. If it takes a simple "trigger" event to inspire that, well and good.

😀

Isn't it great it was something simple?
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