The Mate3x built in Web App

Mate3 and Mate3s communications devices for Outback Power
Post Reply
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1870
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS. X240 with big Bertha way off in the shop. Off grid.
Location: PNW
Contact:

The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by JRHill »

After a post on a different thread I learned something pretty cool this AM. Thanks Raysun!

I have used several things over the years for the 'at a glance' status of my system. Of course I really appreciate graphical stuff for the purpose. But there's something new every day. This Am I gained an understanding that the local Mate3s Web page shows some valuable data and doesn't just reset midnight and isn't just a different format of OpticsRE.

So I'm looking into this more now. It appears that there are accumulators that show the current state of the batteries since the last Days Since Full reset. Whoa, cool. Of course for this to be a decent figure the parameters for Days Since Full have to be tuned.

So I wanted to mention this in case you haven't looked at it recently. There are other tidbits in there too. I just wish the documentation for this feature was better.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by raysun »

The Mate Web App (MWA) uses the same meters as OpticsRE, but displays data from the local accumulators. That makes it good for "snapshots" of status in "near real time".

Its also great if one does not have internet connectivity. All the (read only) data to monitor the system is available on a Local Area Network. At minimum, a computer can be plugged into the Mate3x ethernet port and configured to access the MWA.

DON'T confuse the ethernet port with the other RJ45 port that carries the OB proprietary communications. Damage could result.

Unlike OpticsRE, the system cannot be configured via MWA, all the pages are Read-Only.

20210727_211243.jpg
The MWA landing page - Status screen

The two screens I most access are the Status and Meters pages.

Like the Mate3x itself, to display battery current in the MWA, an FNDC must be included in the system.
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1870
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS. X240 with big Bertha way off in the shop. Off grid.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by JRHill »

Another thought: If you have spent the bucks for an OB Hub and Mate3x you might be interested in the FNDC and Shunts if you are into monitoring your system and digesting performance data. There are discussions ad nauseum on the SoC calculation - not bad of you have a lead battery* for which the FNDC was designed and used in conjunction with specific gravity or other tests appropriate for your lead battery.

What I liked immediately after adding this hardware was the resolution of the shunts. It is really good showing you what goes in and comes out. One for the Inverter(s), one for the charge controller(s) and one spare for another incoming or outgoing battery connection. This is a pretty darn accurate measurement of flow in and out. Much better than the inverter's and charger's on board stuff which doesn't do a good reporting job of overhead (just having the unit turned on/working). No, this isn't a sales ad.

* If you don't have a lead battery it still works good, with consideration. Again, there are bunches of posts on this topic.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by raysun »

The FNDC is a "coulomb counting" battery monitor. It has a fast voltmeter, and DC current tracking capability via shunts placed in-line with the battery negative terminal. It can emply up to three shunts.

A system with a single shunt can track net current - DC current flowing into the battery (positive sign) and DC current flowing out of the battery (negative sign.)

A system with two shunts is usually configured with Chage Controllers on one shunt, and everything else on the other. This gives a fine-grained look into the solar charging component, while the inverter, and other "loads" are shown on the other shunt.

A three shunt arrangement can provide further detail. Usually Shunt A: Charge Controllers, Shunt B: Inverters, Shunt C: Other load and charging sources.

The shunt readings are bi-directional. An inverter drawing from the battery registers a negative (-) current flow. The same inverter charging the battery registers a positive (+) current flow. The FNDC will accumulate the net current flow.

Designed initially to monitor lead-acid batteries, the FNDC uses a Peukert's Constant tailored to that chemistry. (PC = 1.15, IIRC.) LiFePo4 cells have a Peukert's Constant nearer 1.05. The constant is not adjustable in the FNDC. How much of error the FNDC might induce tracking LiFePo4 State of Charge depends on how heavily the battery is being discharged. The greater the "C" rate, the greater the computed error. Since most fixed battery inverter systems are not discharging the battery at C1, C5, or even C10 rates, the error turns out to be fairly small. I run a Victron BMV700 monitor with PC = 1.05 in series with the FNDC, and note no more than 2-3% difference in tracking SoC (and net AH), even over extended periods of two weeks without either meter being synced to 100% SoC.
provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 843
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Two SimpliPhi 3.8-m-24V
(300Ah total)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Grid connection (no selling)
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by provo »

Another cool thing about the Mate webpage is the way you can watch events that are only a few minutes long (like the "absorb" phase of a Phi battery) in great detail -- in fact, it's the only way I have to do that.

When I first got the new batteries I spent a few days recording the whole absorb period (8 minutes for my pack at 28.1 to 28.2V) on the iPhone. A new data point every 5 seconds !!
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by raysun »

provo wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:15 am Another cool thing about the Mate webpage is the way you can watch events that are only a few minutes long (like the "absorb" phase of a Phi battery) in great detail -- in fact, it's the only way I have to do that.

When I first got the new batteries I spent a few days recording the whole absorb period (8 minutes for my pack at 28.1 to 28.2V) on the iPhone. A new data point every 5 seconds !!
Exactly. The "blink and you'll miss it" charge termination (Absorb) phase needs fast tracking to follow.
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1870
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS. X240 with big Bertha way off in the shop. Off grid.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by JRHill »

This is heading off into heavily technical stuff. I was just trying to get someone to LOOK at the data and a way to get the data. If one spends the money all of a sudden there's a priority. Read TFM vs punch buttons and we'll see what happens?

I hope someone reading this realizes that you can't punch the buttons like on the VCR. I could cost a lot of money. Then you blame the equipment or the installer.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:36 am This is heading off into heavily technical stuff. I was just trying to get someone to LOOK at the data and a way to get the data. If one spends the money all of a sudden there's a priority. Read TFM vs punch buttons and we'll see what happens?

I hope someone reading this realizes that you can't punch the buttons like on the VCR. I could cost a lot of money. Then you blame the equipment or the installer.
Sorry about the pedantic turn to the post. Years of diving into the "why and wherefore" triggers the old aphorism: As an engineer the time, and they'll tell you how to build a watch.

The MWA presents the data in a remarkably easy to consume fashion. However, like all data: Garbage in = Garbage out. The metering needs to be accurate in order for the results to be.

Generally speaking, the data are accurate enough to be in the "functional" ballpark.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3 4 port HUB
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Off grid.
Originally installed with 1200 AH of FLA Locomotive batts.
Replaced after 9 years of service with 2 x 300 AH ReLion Lithium packs.
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by sbrownian »

And stuff an SD card in, set up logging, and you can actually have a record of that 'fast' data...
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by raysun »

sbrownian wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:56 am And stuff an SD card in, set up logging, and you can actually have a record of that 'fast' data...
Well.... you get a record of half-fast data, anyway. What's the recording interval?
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3 4 port HUB
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Off grid.
Originally installed with 1200 AH of FLA Locomotive batts.
Replaced after 9 years of service with 2 x 300 AH ReLion Lithium packs.
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by sbrownian »

Vast ideas, half-vast implimentation...

"Data logging will occur at the interval set in the MATE3 Data Logging screen shown in Figure 153 on page 122. Data logging to the MATE3 internal flash memory is stored for up to one year's worth of logs. Data logs can be downloaded selectively to the SD card (as needed) or automatically to the SD card. The interval for automatic downloading to the SD Card can also be set at intervals from 1 to 60 seconds. "
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: The Mate3x built in Web App

Post by raysun »

Thanks for the info!
Post Reply