Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Mate3 and Mate3s communications devices for Outback Power
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pioneerMan
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My RE system: 12 volt system
26 lead acid batteries, 6V, each rated at 210 amp hours
12 solar panels (Mitsubishi 125 Watt)
Outback VFX2812 inverter and two FLEXmax 60 inverters
Trimetric 2030A battery monitor
Mate 3d
Dual fuel 4500 watt AC generator
Location: Northern Utah

Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by pioneerMan »

Right now I have the Mate setup to trigger on the generator when the voltage drops to a low point. This part has been working fine. Once in a while the water pump or some other device turns on during that 2 minute count down timer, and it puts the system over the edge and brings it down.

Why can't there be a setting in the Mate so that the AGS is engaged IF the system shuts down?

Thank you.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by raysun »

I often wonder why my truck won't keep going when it runs out of gas. (I know I passed 3 gas stations, but I really meant to stop at the next one, and its only 4 miles away.)

The inverter's built-in low battery shutdown is set at essentially the 'dead battery' voltage. It does an unconditional shutdown to protect the equipment. Engaging AGS in such an event could cause damage.

I'd imagine if still using an ailing battery, its pretty easy for loads to drive it into the "dead zone."

You might want to set the AGS 2 Minute Voltage Start to a voltage high enough that a last minute load doesn't cause the unconditional shutdown.
JRHill
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Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by JRHill »

pioneerMan wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:55 pmOnce in a while the water pump or some other device turns on during that 2 minute count down timer, and it puts the system over the edge and brings it down.
What does all this mean? What is over the edge? What count down - is this the generator warm up? Only 2 minutes? If the 'emergency' 2 minute count down for AGS that's what it is. An emergency but in 2 minutes. If your low voltage happens in less than 2 minutes, well IDK. I've never had that happen. And what does bringing the system down mean? Breakers blown? Errors and warnings?

How can we help you?
pioneerMan
Forum Guru
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:40 pm
My RE system: 12 volt system
26 lead acid batteries, 6V, each rated at 210 amp hours
12 solar panels (Mitsubishi 125 Watt)
Outback VFX2812 inverter and two FLEXmax 60 inverters
Trimetric 2030A battery monitor
Mate 3d
Dual fuel 4500 watt AC generator
Location: Northern Utah

Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by pioneerMan »

JRHill wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:57 pm What is over the edge? What count down - is this the generator warm up? Only 2 minutes? If the 'emergency' 2 minute count down for AGS that's what it is. An emergency but in 2 minutes. If your low voltage happens in less than 2 minutes, well IDK. I've never had that happen. And what does bringing the system down mean? Breakers blown? Errors and warnings?
When I say "over the edge" I'm referring to the fact that the inverter shuts down, and thus no power to my home. And the 2 minute count down is for the "Low Voltage Start". So I guess I'm suggesting a feature enhancement for a future version of the Mate3s software... the ability to start the generator if the inverter shuts down.
JRHill
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Posts: 2391
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: 48v OB inverter and charge controller, hub and mate3s.
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Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by JRHill »

No, you want to start the generator before the inverter shuts down. But if your storage system can't handle 2 minutes then you have other problems.

For AGS you could use Load Start to fire when your water pump or other pesky load comes on line. But I bet it would be firing your generator constantly. And if you want to warm up your generator first with a 2 minute time or more you're back to the beginning. All would error out before the generator came on line.

You could run the generator constantly and use what's left of the batteries to carry you over when refueling?
raysun
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Posts: 7780
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by raysun »

So I guess I'm suggesting a feature enhancement for a future version of the Mate3s software... the ability to start the generator if the inverter shuts down.
Not going to happen for the reason I outlined above.
pioneerMan
Forum Guru
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:40 pm
My RE system: 12 volt system
26 lead acid batteries, 6V, each rated at 210 amp hours
12 solar panels (Mitsubishi 125 Watt)
Outback VFX2812 inverter and two FLEXmax 60 inverters
Trimetric 2030A battery monitor
Mate 3d
Dual fuel 4500 watt AC generator
Location: Northern Utah

Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by pioneerMan »

Since the battery bank is on its last leg, we made these setting changes in the Mate about 6 months ago. So far it's keeping us alive. I change the oil in the Westinghouse generator every other weekend. Well, I shouldn't say "we" anymore, as I found my neighbor dead on his front steps at the first of December. So it's just me now.

Low Battery Setting
Cut out 10.6 VDC
Cut in 12.0 VDC

2 Minute Voltage Start
Voltage: 11.0

When Spring comes I may replace the entire solar system and battery to something modern. Likely 48 volt, hybrid inverter with server rack type lithium battery.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 7780
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Why can't AGS start when system goes down?

Post by raysun »

pioneerMan wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:23 pm
Low Battery Setting
Cut out 10.6 VDC
Cut in 12.0 VDC

2 Minute Voltage Start
Voltage: 11.0
LBCO = 10.6 is only 0.1V above the inverter's built in 10.5V cutoff. Consider raising that to 11V at least.

LBCI = 12.5V

2 minute voltage start = 12.0V

The weak battery likely swings in voltage quite a bit with varying load. Being more proactive with higher voltages and AGS will help.
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