Fuses burning on my installation

Discussion about the FM100, FM80, and FM60 Charge Controllers

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raysun
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Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

While charging, each controller displays IN volts and amps; and OUT volts and amps. IN is from the panels, and OUT is to the battery.

If all the panel arrays have the same solar exposure, then the 2 FM80 with the 6 panel arrays should show very similar IN and OUT values. The controllers with 3 panel arrays should as well.

During charging, note all IN and OUT values, and post them here.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

"The FM chargers are working in sync with the Mate3S. They do operate as 1 single unit even though there is no FNDC battery monitor. I have seen this operate correctly in all states of charge including EQ."

Each charger is operating autonomously. If set with the same programming they do a good job charging "in concert".

Certain commands, like Start/Stop Bulk, and Start/Stop EQ will work on all chargers from the
Mate. Others require the FNDC to provide current flow data.
anpombo
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Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

raysun wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:33 am While charging, each controller displays IN volts and amps; and OUT volts and amps. IN is from the panels, and OUT is to the battery.

If all the panel arrays have the same solar exposure, then the 2 FM80 with the 6 panel arrays should show very similar IN and OUT values. The controllers with 3 panel arrays should as well.

During charging, note all IN and OUT values, and post them here.
Hi raysun, here they are:

3PM Dec 22 MPPT EQ CHARGE on all controllers
6 panel array
FM80 1
IN: 138.1V, 0.0A
OUT: 27.6V, 0.0A
FM80 2
IN 133.1V, 0.0A
OUT- 27.6V, 0.2A

3 panel array
FM80
IN: 108.4V, 5.2A.
Out: 27.6V,18.7A
FM60
IN: 132.9V, 0.0A
OUT: 27.7V, 0.0A

Mate3s
1.5kW

BMV700
-4.37A
63W
Battery Full 100% -0.00Ah


7AM Dec 23 MPPT BULK Charge on all controllers
6 panel array
FM80 1
IN: 124.7V, 3.3A
OUT: 25.2V, 14.2A
FM80 2
IN 115.1V, 6.2A
OUT- 25.6V, 24.7A

3 panel array
FM80
IN: 117.6V, 2.8 A.
Out: 25.5V,11.8A
FM60
IN: 115.1V, 3.1A
OUT: 25.6V, 12.7A

Mate3s
1.6kW

BMV700
9.57A going in.
245W
Battery 91.4%, -256.9Ah (consumed during night)

1PM Dec 23
6 panel array
FM80 1 - BATT FULL
IN: 131.0V, 0.0A
OUT: 26.6V, 0.0A
FM80 2 - FLOAT
IN 129.2V, 1.9A
OUT- 26.5V, 8.4A

3 panel array
FM80 - MPPT FLOAT
IN: 107.4V, 8.8 A.
Out: 26.5V,32.0A
FM60 - FLOAT
IN: 126.3V, 2.5A
OUT: 26.5V, 12.4A

Mate3s
1.4kW

BMV700
18.1A going in.
486W
97.8%, -71.9Ah in order to reach 100%

Please let me know if there's any other info I should send. Thanks.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

Forum discarded by post again, so I'll answer in pieces.

"3PM Dec 22 MPPT EQ CHARGE on all controllers
6 panel array
FM80 1
IN: 138.1V, 0.0A
OUT: 27.6V, 0.0A
FM80 2
IN 133.1V, 0.0A
OUT- 27.6V, 0.2A

3 panel array
FM80
IN: 108.4V, 5.2A.
Out: 27.6V,18.7A
FM60
IN: 132.9V, 0.0A
OUT: 27.7V, 0.0A"

EQ is a constant voltage charging cycle. The charge controllers will seek to provide only as much current as is required to maintain the target voltage.

Small variations in the controllers' voltage readings may cause some controllers to go silent - with no work to do.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

"7AM Dec 23 MPPT BULK Charge on all controllers
6 panel array
FM80 1
IN: 124.7V, 3.3A
OUT: 25.2V, 14.2A
FM80 2
IN 115.1V, 6.2A
OUT- 25.6V, 24.7A

3 panel array
FM80
IN: 117.6V, 2.8 A.
Out: 25.5V,11.8A
FM60
IN: 115.1V, 3.1A
OUT: 25.6V, 12.7A"

Bulk is a constant current charging phase. The controllers will seek to supply as much charging current as the solar panels can supply.

FM80-1 appears to have an array that is shaded, or otherwise not producing. The voltage is near V(oc), it appears. The low battery voltage (OUT) may indicate resistance in the cable connections from the controller to the battery bus.

The other three arrays seem to be producing power typical of the early morning in most locales.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

"1PM Dec 23
6 panel array
FM80 1 - BATT FULL
IN: 131.0V, 0.0A
OUT: 26.6V, 0.0A
FM80 2 - FLOAT
IN 129.2V, 1.9A
OUT- 26.5V, 8.4A

3 panel array
FM80 - MPPT FLOAT
IN: 107.4V, 8.8 A.
Out: 26.5V,32.0A
FM60 - FLOAT
IN: 126.3V, 2.5A
OUT: 26.5V, 12.4A"

Float is a constant voltage stage.

FM80-1 is ikely reading the battery voltage 0.1V higher than its Float Voltage setting, so has nothing to do.

The other controllers are providing enough current to maintain their target Float voltage.
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

From what we see it is safe to say the Mate3s is having the controllers work in sync? and having the ability to provide as much amps as it can when the batteries require it?
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

The controllers are indeed putting out as much charging current as is available and in accordance with the charging stage (Bulk, Absorb, and Float.)

The Mate has limited charger coordination capability without the companion FNDC battery monitor. For the most part, charger control is autonomous. If the 4 charge controllers are calibrated to read the exact same battery voltage, and are programmed with the same charging parameters, they will naturally "coordinate" charging, even if there was no Mate in the system at all.

One thing I noticed about charging lead acid batteries from solar, especially batteries that are not deeply discharged, is i seldom saw full output from the chargers and solar arrays. The most common reason was Bulk stage, with the highest charge current potential, starts first in the morning and completed before the sun was high in the sky. By the time the arrays might have been producing maximum power, the chargers were in Absorb, and less charging current was needed. My battery was often fully charged before noon.

Now I have a much larger lithium battery that can take full charging current to the end of its charging cycle, and I see much higher production out of the solar arrays.
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

Thanks Raysun, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, what lithium batteries do you have in your system and are there any other brands you know of that are compatible with Outback?
I asume FNDC would be required for the lithium batteries to operate correctly, am I correct?
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

anpombo wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am Thanks Raysun, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, what lithium batteries do you have in your system and are there any other brands you know of that are compatible with Outback?
I asume FNDC would be required for the lithium batteries to operate correctly, am I correct?
I'm using a SimpliPhi battery (3.8-48, 6 parallel blocks.)

There are many compatible lithium batteries, especially if using Lithium Ferrophosphate chemistry (LiFePO4).

A battery monitor is important with any battery, and lithium is no exception. The FNDC can be used to good purpose in helping control charging, but is not strictly necessary to properly charge most lithium batteries, as the charging targets are voltage driven.

For example, I charge the battery using a profile that is essentially a constant current (Bulk) stage until full. When the battery voltage rises to 56.4V ("Absorb" voltage) the charging is stopped.
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

great thanks for all your help raysun.

Happy new year!
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

Happy New Year!
sbrownian
Forum Guru
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by sbrownian »

anpombo wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am Thanks Raysun, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, what lithium batteries do you have in your system and are there any other brands you know of that are compatible with Outback?
I asume FNDC would be required for the lithium batteries to operate correctly, am I correct?
The system I occasionally mess with, just had the 1200 or so amp/hr worth of LMUD550 locomotive starting batteries replaced with two '48'v 300 amp/hr ReLion packs in parallel. Cycle time between charging is slightly shorter, (only ran the locomotive batts down to 70% capacity,) but the efficiency is much better....
pss
Forum Czar
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by pss »

If I had these panels and FM80 and FM60, I would connect 2 panels in series via the MC4 connectors or other connectors. Then the wires would enter into a combiner box where a circuit breaker like a 25-30 amp DC breaker would be installed. Then I would run three strings for the FM 60 and 4 strings for the FM 80 . But prior to getting to the charge controller, I would place a DC disconnect switch in between the combiner box and the charge controller. The DC disconnect switch box box would have a solar fuse installed, about 80 amps for the FM 60 and 100 amps for the FM 80. The combiner box would also be locally grounded like the panels are and there would be a DC lightening arrestor also installed in the combiner box. This usually works well.
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

sbrownian wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:15 pm
anpombo wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am Thanks Raysun, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, what lithium batteries do you have in your system and are there any other brands you know of that are compatible with Outback?
I asume FNDC would be required for the lithium batteries to operate correctly, am I correct?
The system I occasionally mess with, just had the 1200 or so amp/hr worth of LMUD550 locomotive starting batteries replaced with two '48'v 300 amp/hr ReLion packs in parallel. Cycle time between charging is slightly shorter, (only ran the locomotive batts down to 70% capacity,) but the efficiency is much better....
Thanks for the suggestion sbrownian!
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

pss wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:37 pm If I had these panels and FM80 and FM60, I would connect 2 panels in series via the MC4 connectors or other connectors. Then the wires would enter into a combiner box where a circuit breaker like a 25-30 amp DC breaker would be installed. Then I would run three strings for the FM 60 and 4 strings for the FM 80 . But prior to getting to the charge controller, I would place a DC disconnect switch in between the combiner box and the charge controller. The DC disconnect switch box box would have a solar fuse installed, about 80 amps for the FM 60 and 100 amps for the FM 80. The combiner box would also be locally grounded like the panels are and there would be a DC lightening arrestor also installed in the combiner box. This usually works well.
Yeap thats the easiest way. I didn't have a combiner box since the beginning which complicated the wiring a little bit. and since its a remote area, I decided to switch to breakers instead of fuses in case of a fault. thanks pss
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

I received an Event notification error shown in the image attached. this is after the new string configuration.
It is clear that the VOC has exceeded 150v. It is the second time i see this warning message.

How bad is it?
Attachments
Screen Shot 2021-01-13 at 11.31.55.png
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 3843
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by raysun »

anpombo wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:38 am I received an Event notification error shown in the image attached. this is after the new string configuration.
It is clear that the VOC has exceeded 150v. It is the second time i see this warning message.

How bad is it?
How many panels are in the series strings?

The 150V limit is definitely a point at which damage can occur to circuit components. It should be avoided.
pss
Forum Czar
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:40 am
My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by pss »

Your profile says panel Voc is 50, so 2 panels in series is the limit, and each 2 panels series must have its own DC string breaker installed in the combiner box too. Parallel strings are combined after that not to exceed the safe wattage and amperage of the charge controller. Measure voltage of each 2 string panel series in full sun before connection to the charge controller is turned on. Remember Voc rises with temperatures below 77 and decreases with temperatures above 77 at the panel surface. In fact, never turn on any outback equipment for the first time or after a repair without using your volt meter to make certain all is well and will not smoke or damage or trip breakers or blow fuses. Make certain your fuses in the Dc disconnect switch are solar type slow blow. Make certain your combiner box is well grounded at the array with a grounding rod buries nearby and make certain you have correctly installed a DC lightening arrestor into the combiner box. Don't want a night time creature, pet or family member to suffer a shocking experience.
anpombo
Forum Whiz
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am
My RE system: - 18 Trina Solar 400w: Vmpp (V) 41.1, Impp(A) 9.74, Voc (V) 50.4, Isc (A) 10.18
- 12 Narada OPzV 2V 2000ah Batteries
- 3 Flexmax 80
- 1 Flexmax 60
- Mate3s with 4 port HUB
- 1 Victron Energy BMV 700 Battery Monitor
- 2 Victron Energy Quattro 3000w Inverter/charger
- 1 6000w generator

This has been a sort of retrofit, thats why the system is a bit of a Frankenstein

Re: Fuses burning on my installation

Post by anpombo »

Thanks pss for the recomendations. I doo have all the arrestors and solar grade breakers in all strings. I'll keep all recomendations mentioned. Thanks again.

Regards,
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