Schematic

A place to post images and descriptions of your OutBack Power System

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JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Schematic

Post by JRHill »

I've seen some great drawings of systems. And some great pictures. So far I think EAGLE-ONE takes the prize but this is not to take away from smaller and less complex systems that were very well done. I'm sure he also has some schematics.

It is time for me to do some documentation. Yeah, I did everything on the fly with lots of lost notes/napkins, line-outs and on and on. I need to an "as built." This consists of:
~2925 watts of panels 2 2x3 strings and one 1x3 into the combiner box, appropriately breakered and never tripped, std connections to the combiner;
- A transfer switch that flips from 120v sources. The most used is the Honda. Rarely but as is needed the 240v from the shop (11k) and through the OB 240 transformer for the other side of the switch, appropriately breakered;
- The buss and shunts. The shunt wiring;
- The battery leads and connections;
- Communication cables;
- To be added a bypass from the generation of choice past the inverter to the panel.
- To be added, the old VFX as a backup to new inverter (have that schematic, TY folks).

This can not be one drawing for sure. What is a good open source schematic package to do this project? I've looked around but not been motivated by what I've seen.
sodamo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Schematic

Post by sodamo »

My original OB system was draw up as built and stamped by engineer for permit process. Boy what a process getting that dufus getting it right. You’d think being as built the guy could identify components and how connected ☹️

Of course, now everything has been upgraded and I no longer have a valid schematic, but I’d like one, so I’m hoping someone has good input.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: Schematic

Post by JRHill »

sodamo wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:01 pm My original OB system was draw up as built and stamped by engineer for permit process. Boy what a process getting that dufus getting it right. You’d think being as built the guy could identify components and how connected ☹️

Of course, now everything has been upgraded and I no longer have a valid schematic, but I’d like one, so I’m hoping someone has good input.
This can be a touchy subject regarding, eh, stuff.

I'll just stay with the documentation for what is in place.
sodamo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Schematic

Post by sodamo »

Yea, touchy 😁

When we got our electrical permit, none required for solar, but then County decided we needed for final. Probably should have fought it, but as it was the head Inspector was already giving my electrician grief over previously passed stuff and he had to change at own expense.
Installer sent some “engineer” in a rattle trap car to document the installed system. I had to send drawing back 3 times to get it correct before he could send to another engineer in Florida for signature (with a check).
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed.

I install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems in my area and consult on solar system design/operation.
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Schematic

Post by fcwlp »

I have used DipTrace (https://diptrace.com/) which is schematic capture and PCB layout tool for a couple of years. I just use the schematic function. There is a free version that allows up to 300 pins (e.g., connections) between components. As with any software there is a learning curve. You could also use PowerPoint or equivalent.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Schematic

Post by sbrownian »

One of our engineers likes to use Visio for building circuit diagrams. Not schematics per say, but things like switch to switch network interconnections, fiber patching, logical data paths through the MPLS backbone, etc.

Works pretty well and they have a lot of predesigned "blocks" to represent equipment.
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

I like ball point pens and cocktail napkins.
provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Eight Rolls S-550 (2 strings, total ~800Ah @ 24V)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC and Trimetric
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Schematic

Post by provo »

raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 am I like ball point pens and cocktail napkins.
Me, too :-)


Solar Block Diagram.jpg
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

provo wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:22 am
raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 am I like ball point pens and cocktail napkins.
Me, too :-)



Solar Block Diagram.jpg
There's a huge difference in our approaches - you can draw, and print legibly.
provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Eight Rolls S-550 (2 strings, total ~800Ah @ 24V)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC and Trimetric
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Schematic

Post by provo »

raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:27 am
There's a huge difference in our approaches - you can draw, and print legibly.
:lol: :lol: . BTW, how are you doing with the ash from that Kilauea eruption?
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

The plume turned out to be mostly steam. We were tempted to drive up and see the eruption last night, but 8PM is past my bed time.
provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Eight Rolls S-550 (2 strings, total ~800Ah @ 24V)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC and Trimetric
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Schematic

Post by provo »

Agreed! I'm gonna try to state up past sundown to see the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction tho.... Good to hear you didn't get ashed....
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Schematic

Post by sbrownian »

I halfway expected a picture of that rough sketch on a napkin of the first vampire tap ethernet transceiver. .
Last edited by sbrownian on Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

provo wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:44 am Agreed! I'm gonna try to state up past sundown to see the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction tho.... Good to hear you didn't get ashed....
We try to keep our heads down and our ash out of the way.
JRHill
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 am
My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: Schematic

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:35 am The plume turned out to be mostly steam. We were tempted to drive up and see the eruption last night, but 8PM is past my bed time.
Thx for that update Raysun - I was wondering.

As for the schematic stuff I'm holding off. One of my sons is the R&D guru at a large tech company at I'll spring this on him when he shows up for Christmas. One of my criteria is to hopefully have a local install to save on bandwidth. I have flash backs to earlier days when I tried subcontracting design and drafting services. I got a loan and bought and IBM Model 80, the big interlaced screen, a Summagraphics tablet and AutoCAD 2-3.? and went to work. I had a buddy that had a large plotter so that was covered. Ultimately I didn't make enough to pay for the electricity the setup used. I learned a lot about business. But I sure had a great machine to do homework.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

I personally like the cocktail napkin approach. Its < $10 for materials and equipment, and comes with free refreshments!
sodamo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Schematic

Post by sodamo »

provo wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:22 am
raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 am I like ball point pens and cocktail napkins.
Me, too :-)

WOW, I could never make one that nice.

I have a different technique - Spreadsheet.
For years I have used the drawing capabilities in a spreadsheet because I can set a scale table. Currently use Numbers. What’s neat is I can pull up on my iphone, ipad, Mac.



Solar Block Diagram.jpg
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
sodamo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Schematic

Post by sodamo »

There was an eruption??? Did I sleep thru it?
Saw the planets briefly last night just ahead of the clouds.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Schematic

Post by sbrownian »

raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:13 am I personally like the cocktail napkin approach. Its < $10 for materials and equipment, and comes with free refreshments!
Gotta watch out for the memory eraser function, though..
Information, you get not; if incorrect question, you ask..
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:32 am There was an eruption??? Did I sleep thru it?
Saw the planets briefly last night just ahead of the clouds.
Yes. A steam plume from Halemaumau. I watched somebody's live feed. It was interesting.
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4624
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Schematic

Post by raysun »

sbrownian wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:33 am
raysun wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:13 am I personally like the cocktail napkin approach. Its < $10 for materials and equipment, and comes with free refreshments!
Gotta watch out for the memory eraser function, though..
Heh!
fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed.

I install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems in my area and consult on solar system design/operation.
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Schematic

Post by fcwlp »

This is the drawing of the system that got me into the business. It was even drawn on two sheets of 8.5x11 paper.

FYI, do not copy this design, it is the one where the original designer/installer blew up two inverters.
Rough Drawing 1.pdf
(1.4 MiB) Downloaded 31 times
provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Eight Rolls S-550 (2 strings, total ~800Ah @ 24V)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC and Trimetric
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Schematic

Post by provo »

fcwlp wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:51 pm
This is the drawing of the system that got me into the business. It was even drawn on two sheets of 8.5x11 paper.
A thing of beauty! I love it. I like the notes, done in a text app and pasted in before scanning.
Works for me :grin: .
sodamo
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Schematic

Post by sodamo »

Did this after my upgrades but guessing it doesn’t qualify as a schematic
8C2DF0F1-FD7E-4A46-B88F-900A8D676B8B.jpeg
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
SandyP
Forum Guru
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:44 am
My RE system: 8 x 190W 24V Suntech panels (4 strings of 2) July 2011
4 x 325W 24V Suntech panels (2 strings of 2) added Sept2018
Mate2
Outback FM60 MPPT (max output lowered to 55amps)
12 x 2V Hoppecke GEL 612 Ah C24 - 24V System (June 2011)
Outback VFX3024 Inverter/Charger
Victron BMV-602s
Honda 5.5kW Genset
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Schematic

Post by SandyP »

JRHill wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:25 pm ../.. What is a good open source schematic package to do this project? I've looked around but not been motivated by what I've seen.
Maybe just something simple like Google Docs -> Insert - > Drawing -> New ?
Can then add shapes / lines / text / images etc.
-------------------------
http://spwebcam.myddns.me/
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