Just Finishing Installation

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RealityRipple
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Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:43 am
My RE system: In Progress
Radian GS8048A-01
GSLC175-PV-120/240
FLEXmax 80 (2x)
Sharp ND-L3EJE 123W Panel (21x)
PHI-3.8-48-60 Battery (2x)
Kohler 12RES Generator
Location: California
Contact:

Just Finishing Installation

Post by RealityRipple »

All that's left is to attach the 4/0 wiring to the PV leads (got some great Burndy connectors), 4/0 from the battery boxes to the load center, and some tiny 14 gauge for the AGS relay.

Image

All wires are color-standard (or black with color-standard electrical tape at important locations)
From right to left:
Battery positive with 60A DC breaker
Battery negative
FLEXmax 80s
Radian and Load Center
Ground Wire is just left of the Load Center and goes outside through the hole in the wall on the left with the big 4/0 PV wire
AC Box (from old FX system, rewired from scratch)
House Line is the thick black insulation coming from behind the plywood into the upper right of the AC Box
Pump Line is the thick black insulation coming from a pipe in the cement directly below the House Line
Primary Generator is the white line coming out of the conduit and going into the bottom right of the AC Box
Secondary Generator is the sleek gray conduit coming in the same 2" knockout of the AC Box as the Primary
AC In Line is the ribbed gray tube going into the bottom left of the AC Box
Receptacle connects to the power strip on the wall, which feeds the Primary Generator's battery charger and a light in the shed
AC Out Line is the wire on the far left of the AC Box, which will later be covered in the same soft-conduit tubing as the AC In and FLEXmax wire lines are

AC Breakers are (Left to Right):
Generator 1 In 2P (Rocker Left)
Generator 2 In 2P (Rocker Right)
Receptacle Out 1P
Pump Out 2P
House Out 1P

You may also notice I moved the Gen In breaker in the Load Center up one and covered the spare Grid breaker with tape. I also removed the Grid breaker wires. The generator breakers weren't attached to the bypass, and I needed that bypass to power my house off the generator to have power at all right now.

The 4/0 PV fiasco coming through the wall at the bottom left is tomorrow's task.

If anyone sees any obvious mistakes, please let me know! This is my first electrical wiring job other than rewiring solar panels in series.
My name is Andy
I write software
User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

4/0 from PV is overkill unless you are using one single PV array to go to both CCs? that will be wrong. each CCs will need to have its own PV array. No more than 3840W on each CC. with your 21 panels of 123W panels you have only 2583W max enough only for one FM80. which is small for the radian inverter as the 2 phi batteries are too little. I think is recommended at least 5 PHI for a radian GS8048A.
User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

I don't see a Mate3 or Mate3s with your system. you will need one to program and control your system. also indicated will be FNDC to track your battery charging and discharging for best performance.
correction: I see three shunts do you have the FNDC?
User avatar
RealityRipple
Forum Whiz
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:43 am
My RE system: In Progress
Radian GS8048A-01
GSLC175-PV-120/240
FLEXmax 80 (2x)
Sharp ND-L3EJE 123W Panel (21x)
PHI-3.8-48-60 Battery (2x)
Kohler 12RES Generator
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by RealityRipple »

Panel wires are what they are. The panels are way up a hill and the 4/0 ensures infinite PV cell upgrade potential and minimal loss. Replacing them would be an incredibly difficult climb. The PV setup is 4 sections of 6 (minus 1 or 2) panels in series, then combined into Burndy connectors in parallel down the hill to stay under the 150v max of the CCs.

The breaker in the positive battery combiner box is 60A to prevent the battery input or output from being beyond their rating. The max for two batteries is actually 75 (37.5 x 2), but because of the trip curve, I figured 60 would mean 125% is 75, so it should trip in time to save them in case there's any crazy loads. Which there won't be, but just in case.

The black wire mounted with white clips to the plywood and the wall on the bottom left is a heavy-duty outdoor rated 200 foot patch cable that runs up the hill to the house where the MATE3 will reside. It attaches to the hub, runs into the LC, then goes straight down and right out on the left side of the LC again.

The FLEXnet is pre-installed in the LC, right next to the two main DC breakers just right of the shunts. It's that weird egg-timer-shaped black thing with the 4 darker black squares (those are the lights).
My name is Andy
I write software
User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

to be clear, how many wires you have coming from the PV? the negative can be one 4/0. for each CC you need to have one positive wire coming from one PV combiner that can have more strings combined to achieve the desired power but not exceeding 3840W. For proper installation you need a PV combiner for each CC with each PV string protected by a fuse. Also you should have a DC breaker for each combiner to disconnect in case is needed to do work on PV.
For the battery you need a 250A DC breaker to be able to feed the Radian inverter. each inverter module of the radian use at least 125A DC breaker. You should've got GS4048A if you wanted to start with a small battery.
Contact Outback support to see if you can disable one of the Inverter modules to use it as a 4KW inverter and just get one more phi battery and change the breaker to 125A
User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

one more thing each PV string connected in parallel in one combiner should have the same model (or same V and A values) and amount of panels.
sbrownian
Forum Czar
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:23 am
My RE system: GS8048 FM80 FNDC Mate3
4kw solar
7kw Kubota propane gen
Had 1200 Ahr FLA Locomotive batts
Just replaced with
2 x 300 Ah ReLion Lithium packs
MUCH more efficient!!
Location: Central Washington State

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by sbrownian »

I was informed that in the event of a failure, one inverter module could be removed and the GS8048 run until the module was repaired and re-installed. At reduced loading of course, and personally, I would change all the parameters like AC current for the inverter charging, etc.

How about surge / lightning protection?
You can see the module on the side of the PV combiner / breaker box far right... The blue glow barely visible is an indicator LED to show 'all is ok' and it is energized, and I like the warning labels as well.

BTW, this system has two ReLion 300 ah packs on it. 600 amp hour total.
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User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
6 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 6 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
78 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, Radian GS8048A,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

sbrownian wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:27 am
How about surge / lightning protection?
Always good to have lightning protection on PV side and AC side.
raysun
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Posts: 4578
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by raysun »

EA6LE-ONE wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:32 am
sbrownian wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:27 am
How about surge / lightning protection?
Always good to have lightning protection on PV side and AC side.
The last two folks I helped with inverter failures had dead output boards after lightning storms. Their PV arrays, charge controllers were surge protected, and unscathed. It looked like the house AC wiring carried EMP into the inverters, which didn't have surge protection.
User avatar
RealityRipple
Forum Whiz
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:43 am
My RE system: In Progress
Radian GS8048A-01
GSLC175-PV-120/240
FLEXmax 80 (2x)
Sharp ND-L3EJE 123W Panel (21x)
PHI-3.8-48-60 Battery (2x)
Kohler 12RES Generator
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by RealityRipple »

The PV setup is as follows:
  • Two huge poles in the ground with an array on each one.
  • Two sections per array (upper and lower), daisy-chained together (series), for a total of 120v, 120v, 100v, and 80v, all at the nominal 7 amps of an individual panel. I used to have 24 panels, but three burnt out on me on one array, one on the upper half, two on the lower half.
  • Altogether, the "quadrants" lead to a total of eight 4/0 cables running a couple hundred feet down a very steep hill.
  • Today, I'm merging these 4/0 into a total of four Burndy BIBS-250-3 connectors, two positive, two negative (parallel).
  • From each connector, a single #4 wire carrying 120v@14A or 80v@14A leads out, positive to the load center for the PV breakers (the bottom two) and negative to the FLEXmax controllers.
I'm aware this makes one of the panels in the upper half of the lower voltage PV "quadrant" essentially useless, and I might take it out of the system in the future, but it's a good 8 or 9 feet off the ground and really annoying to redo. These panels are very old and I have to run handmade wires into the junction boxes and screw them down upside-down while standing on a ladder. So let the extra 20v go to waste for now. I'm sure another panel will go bad soon enough.
The amperage remains the same because the panels are in series up the hill, the voltage increases in parallel down the hill to stay under the 150v maximum of the CCs. One 20th of the generated power ends up lost in the process. Not ideal, but until I replace one or both the arrays with brand new panels, that's the best I can do for now.

Regarding the Radian - as far as I know, its actual use is only about 30W, and the two sections of the inverters in the 8048A automatically power-save and one will switch off for efficiency, meaning it will handle like a 4048A on its own. If I'm incorrect in my reading of the manual, though, I'd love to know. I plan to add more batteries one or two at a time over the next couple years until I reach a total of 5 or 6.

I have protection on the house and the panels, which should provide a much quicker grounding spot than the boxes, which are where the house's hill and the solar hill meet at the bottom, so hopefully the chances of the system getting hit will be extremely low. However, I'm sure I'll want to add some dampening hardware before late summer. I'll definitely look into it.
My name is Andy
I write software
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4578
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by raysun »

The one comment I have is in re.: SimpliPhi's warranty requirements. They are very specific about battery capacity in relation to total charging capacity and total discharge capacity.

Needless to say, the two Phi 3.8-48 blocks do not provide sufficient capacity to match the other equipment.
User avatar
RealityRipple
Forum Whiz
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:43 am
My RE system: In Progress
Radian GS8048A-01
GSLC175-PV-120/240
FLEXmax 80 (2x)
Sharp ND-L3EJE 123W Panel (21x)
PHI-3.8-48-60 Battery (2x)
Kohler 12RES Generator
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by RealityRipple »

raysun wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:38 pm The one comment I have is in re.: SimpliPhi's warranty requirements. They are very specific about battery capacity in relation to total charging capacity and total discharge capacity.

Needless to say, the two Phi 3.8-48 blocks do not provide sufficient capacity to match the other equipment.
That's what the 60A DC Breaker in the positive battery box is for. I called Outback, SimpliPhi, and Carling (the breaker manufacturer) to ensure that it'd be the right way to protect the batteries from too much in or out.
My name is Andy
I write software
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 4578
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by raysun »

RealityRipple wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:53 pm
raysun wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:38 pm The one comment I have is in re.: SimpliPhi's warranty requirements. They are very specific about battery capacity in relation to total charging capacity and total discharge capacity.

Needless to say, the two Phi 3.8-48 blocks do not provide sufficient capacity to match the other equipment.
That's what the 60A DC Breaker in the positive battery box is for. I called Outback, SimpliPhi, and Carling (the breaker manufacturer) to ensure that it'd be the right way to protect the batteries from too much in or out.
That will handle instantaneous charge/discharge peaks, but it won't handle their lawyer-language in the warranty. If you haven't had the pleasure, I'd recommend reading their warranty doc that references Outback installs.
JRHill
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My RE system: VFXR3648, FM80, 3k panels, Mate3s, FNDC, 4ea 3.8 PHIs. EU7000is AGS.
Location: PNW
Contact:

Re: Just Finishing Installation

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:42 pmI'd recommend reading their warranty doc that references Outback installs.
Heh, this really sucks. It goes way back to the thread of battery mfgrs offering warranties for longer than they have existed. For some of us we moved in the world of trust to performance. So far we haven't been disappointed. We'll see, 10 years down the road.

All I can say is it is hands off.
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