Generator not turning off after AGS run?

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jtzako
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:42 am If charging is turned off altogether in both inverters, the generator connected to the FXR and started manually, does it connect successfully and run the house loads? (You may need to press AC Input on the Mate and set USE manually).
I havent tried manually starting the generator (other than AGS) and doing a manual 'use'. I can say that while the generator was running and the FXR was clicking AC on/off repeatedly, my batteries were still draining.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by JRHill »

jtzako wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:29 amI then shut everything down and moved back over to the old FX inverter and re-tested and it seems to work perfectly.
Hmmm and dang. The experience should be the opposite. But and and least that have a better LVCO and LVCO, right? And a few other things we could have if power lines appeared.
jtzako
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

JRHill wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:32 pm
jtzako wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:29 amI then shut everything down and moved back over to the old FX inverter and re-tested and it seems to work perfectly.
Hmmm and dang. The experience should be the opposite. But and and least that have a better LVCO and LVCO, right? And a few other things we could have if power lines appeared.
I sent another reply to Outback support about this latest test. I can only assume at this point that the FXR is faulty in some way, if so they'll have to replace it.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by JRHill »

jtzako wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:00 pm if so they'll have to replace it.
What, replace it with the same? Heck, there are others running the VFRX and doing just fine. What I am trying to determine is the difference. Yours and my problems are different but kind of the same. You have the AGS lack of shut down. I can not hit CPM and have an uncooperative absorb and premature AGS shut down. It seems those who are fine don't use AGS or just as an experiment. More to come.

As I mentioned in another post, as the OB stuff gets smarter it gets tougher to troubleshoot.
jtzako
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

JRHill wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:27 pm
jtzako wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:00 pm if so they'll have to replace it.
What, replace it with the same? Heck, there are others running the VFRX and doing just fine. What I am trying to determine is the difference. Yours and my problems are different but kind of the same. You have the AGS lack of shut down. I can not hit CPM and have an uncooperative absorb and premature AGS shut down. It seems those who are fine don't use AGS or just as an experiment. More to come.

As I mentioned in another post, as the OB stuff gets smarter it gets tougher to troubleshoot.
In my case I now know that the inverter wont stay connected to the AC. I'm hoping OB might know why now that I've found that out. It seems to be working fine inverting, but wont charge via the generator.

The voltage spikes that caused power outages where, I think, caused by a rapid rise in voltage after a certain point in charging. I noticed that the voltage rises slowly until about 55.5V but after that it goes up more quickly and then around 56 to 56.4V it jumps way up and triggers the BMS to shut down the batteries. I'm not sure why it acts differently on the FX and FXR (same voltage settings) but if the other charging issue is resolved I think I can just lower the Absorb voltage a bit. (the lifepo batteries just seem to have very little tolerance if you charge even slightly longer/higher than they want)
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by raysun »

As LiFePo4 batteries approach full charge, the terminal voltage rises very rapidly. Once the cells have accepted a full "charge", the charge current drops precipitatiously.

I charge my battery to 56.4V for 0.1H.

In a test I'll not repeat, the charger supplied 180A of charging current right to charge termination and the current fell to 0A. The transition from 180A to 0A took less than 10 seconds.

The VFXR should be well able to hold a constant Absorb voltage (within 0.1V).

What is the Absorb Voltage setting?
What is the maximum voltage reported?
jtzako
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:20 pm As LiFePo4 batteries approach full charge, the terminal voltage rises very rapidly. Once the cells have accepted a full "charge", the charge current drops precipitatiously.

I charge my battery to 56.4V for 0.1H.

In a test I'll not repeat, the charger supplied 180A of charging current right to charge termination and the current fell to 0A. The transition from 180A to 0A took less than 10 seconds.

The VFXR should be well able to hold a constant Absorb voltage (within 0.1V).

What is the Absorb Voltage setting?
What is the maximum voltage reported?
The absorb was set to 56.4 on FX and FXR the last time I had the spike occur. However, since the FXR was switching on/off constantly I dont know if perhaps that was what caused the spike. I know from when I first installed the FM80 and LiFePO batteries that voltage higher than that (even 57V) will cause the voltage to spike at the end (even via solar charging). I just had not previously had it do that with the normal settings (on the FX inverters). The FNDC reported 64V but it was apparently a quick enough spike that it did not trigger the HBCO in the inverter/FNDC.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by raysun »

The FNDC reported 64V
Yikes! I've never seen a battery voltage that high.

For sure, it should cause a halt in operations while the source was identified.

Was there any log entries associated with the high voltage event?
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:21 pm
The FNDC reported 64V
Yikes! I've never seen a battery voltage that high.

For sure, it should cause a halt in operations while the source was identified.

Was there any log entries associated with the high voltage event?
No logs about the actual high voltage. The only log was the battery volt sense fault when the battery BMS shut them down.

I've had the system 'charging' side on my old FX for a couple days now (so much snow lately the gen has to run a lot) and it seems perfectly stable like that.

I need to figure out why the FXR wont latch on to the AC input and just clicks on/off repeatedly. Whatever is causing that is probably why it is misbehaving and may also be causing that spike. note: that was with both inverters connected for charging but only the FX was actually working since the FXR was just bouncing on/off. With just the FXR connected the system doesnt charge at all from the generator.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by raysun »

The AC Input board, mounted behind the AC Input terminals, is responsible for accepting the connection from the generator. The board may be damaged, or there's something in thd AC in from the generator it doesn't like.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:04 am The AC Input board, mounted behind the AC Input terminals, is responsible for accepting the connection from the generator. The board may be damaged, or there's something in thd AC in from the generator it doesn't like.
Outback support told me about some additional info you can get from the Mate3s screens for things that dont show up in the logs. I reconnected by FXR inverter in Support mode and started up AGS. It initially connected to the AC but after a few minutes it resumed the on/off thing it had done before. I then looked at the "AC Input -> Disconnect" menu on the Mate and it showed Island Detect.

As far as I know "Island" is related to Grid input, which I dont have. I did find that in the FX manual Island Detect could be caused by the generator and it suggests using Generator mode instead of Support mode.

I tested Generator mode again, and it does actually stay connected to AC source in that mode, it just charges slower.

It may be that for whatever reason the FXR in Support mode doesnt like my generator. I watched the input Hz and it was fluctuating between about 59.8 and 60.2 Hz and 121 to 123 Volts. I dont know if that movement is the issue or if it is something else going on.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by raysun »

One more "interesting" behavior in the FXR family. It seems updating the FX platform with the grid interactive functionality, advanced charging, etc., did not come without some gremlins.

The Island Detect explanation is a bit light on... explanation. Its too bad Generator mode is needed, its certainly less efficient for charging, but charging is better than no charging.

This probably has nothing to do with it, but is the inverter AC Input/AC Input Select Priority set to "Gen"?
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by jtzako »

raysun wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:25 pm One more "interesting" behavior in the FXR family. It seems updating the FX platform with the grid interactive functionality, advanced charging, etc., did not come without some gremlins.

The Island Detect explanation is a bit light on... explanation. Its too bad Generator mode is needed, its certainly less efficient for charging, but charging is better than no charging.

This probably has nothing to do with it, but is the inverter AC Input/AC Input Select Priority set to "Gen"?
Yes it is on Gen. The only part I'm not sure on there is on the Mate3s Modes tab the Grid-Tie Mode says enabled but wont disable. (it just goes back to saying enabled) That may not matter since nothing else is enabled for Grid Tie but it just seemed odd to me.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by raysun »


Yes it is on Gen. The only part I'm not sure on there is on the Mate3s Modes tab the Grid-Tie Mode says enabled but wont disable. (it just goes back to saying enabled) That may not matter since nothing else is enabled for Grid Tie but it just seemed odd to me.
Hmmm.... the Mate is one spot I wouldn't want Grid Tie enabled if not intending to use grid interactive functions. I wonder why it won't disable?

It leads to an interesting experiment.
Preset the inverter mode to Support, AC Input to Use, and Charger to Start Bulk. Disconnect the Mate. Start the generator.

The inverter status LEDs should tell if the generator is connected. You'll have to judge by ear if the generator is delivering sufficient current to be charging.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by twistedtree »

[quote=jtzako post_id=93322 time=1643339239 user_id=17660]
[quote=raysun post_id=93300 time=1643303054 user_id=13015]
The AC Input board, mounted behind the AC Input terminals, is responsible for accepting the connection from the generator. The board may be damaged, or there's something in thd AC in from the generator it doesn't like.
[/quote]

Outback support told me about some additional info you can get from the Mate3s screens for things that dont show up in the logs. I reconnected by FXR inverter in Support mode and started up AGS. It initially connected to the AC but after a few minutes it resumed the on/off thing it had done before. I then looked at the "AC Input -> Disconnect" menu on the Mate and it showed Island Detect.

As far as I know "Island" is related to Grid input, which I dont have. I did find that in the FX manual Island Detect could be caused by the generator and it suggests using Generator mode instead of Support mode.

I tested Generator mode again, and it does actually stay connected to AC source in that mode, it just charges slower.

It may be that for whatever reason the FXR in Support mode doesnt like my generator. I watched the input Hz and it was fluctuating between about 59.8 and 60.2 Hz and 121 to 123 Volts. I dont know if that movement is the issue or if it is something else going on.
[/quote]

I've got this same issue with "Island Detect" causing the OBs to disconnect from my generator. It's very frustrating because Support Mode is exactly why I bought the FXRs instead of Victron. But it doesn't work. Generator input seems to me to be EXACTLY when you want Support Mode, but that's when it doesn't work?
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Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by raysun »

twistedtree wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:27 pm
I've got this same issue with "Island Detect" causing the OBs to disconnect from my generator. It's very frustrating because Support Mode is exactly why I bought the FXRs instead of Victron. But it doesn't work. Generator input seems to me to be EXACTLY when you want Support Mode, but that's when it doesn't work?
There's no equipment list in your profile so I'm guessing "FXRs" means more than one in the system. If so, how are they configured?

I too went through some nuisance issues with FXRs (two, Parallel stacked) and came away a bit underwhelmed with the firmware/hardware performance in certain aspects. Support is one of them.
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Re: Generator not turning off after AGS run?

Post by twistedtree »

[quote=raysun post_id=94513 time=1648342868 user_id=13015]
[quote=twistedtree post_id=94512 time=1648333672 user_id=1080]

I've got this same issue with "Island Detect" causing the OBs to disconnect from my generator. It's very frustrating because Support Mode is exactly why I bought the FXRs instead of Victron. But it doesn't work. Generator input seems to me to be EXACTLY when you want Support Mode, but that's when it doesn't work?
[/quote]

There's no equipment list in your profile so I'm guessing "FXRs" means more than one in the system. If so, how are they configured?

I too went through some nuisance issues with FXRs (two, Parallel stacked) and came away a bit underwhelmed with the firmware/hardware performance in certain aspects. Support is one of them.
[/quote]

I just started this new thread so this doesn't get lost in this thread.

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