FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

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MTP
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 am
My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

OK 1st time posting and very green as to inverter knowledge. I can navigate a few settings but that's about it.My system is 24v.
Flexpower one FX2524T, Mate2, Fm80, Hub4, Flexnet-dc. I have had system since 2012 using 8 6v lead acid batteries, they finally died. I changed to 4 LION Energy 12v Lithium this October. Charging is done by 2 140 watt Kyocera panels & 2020 honda EU7000is generator. I changed the batteries in October, weekend use for a month, then daily use for a month, then weekend use again for a month. All was working fine until a few weeks ago. System went down, The BMS on the batteries showed 20% or less. Generator would not charge them. Took batteries hom & manually charged with Optima Charger. When hooked to charger the charger read about 15% on all. After charge back to camp, hooked back up & ran well & was able to charge from generator for that weekend....Next weekend system died again, batteries 20% or less according to BMS, FNDC & mate showing batteries at 100%, so the system would not allow generator to charge batteries. I hope someone can understand all that & has a solution.
Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
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All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by Mike Curran »

With a 24V system you must have those lithium batteries wired in a series/parallel configuration. I know parallel is fine for lithium but I didn't think you could wire them in series and expect good results. But maybe your batteries are suitable for this? I know my Simpliphi's are not...
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
MTP
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Posts: 8
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My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

When first changing to lithium, I told LION my setup & they said it should work fine. It worked fine for months then went down. LION is sending me new batteries no questions asked, free of charge.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by raysun »

Its not specified but assumed the battery blocks are the LiON 12V @ 105AH units? If so, the battery is rated 24V @ 210AH nominal. Is that correct?

The fully charged battery would have roughly 4kWH usable capacity if discharged 80% from a full charge.

Both the FM80 and the FX2524T chargers need programming to assure the battery is properly charged. What battery charging parameters are being used?

FM80 Battery Charging

FX2524T Battery Charging

FlexNET DC Battery Charging
MTP
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 am
My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

I will have to get back to you the next time I make it to my camp & have info in front of me.
raysun
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by raysun »

It may be a defective battery issue. Nice to hear LiON is replacing them without hassle.

Proper charging parameters are critical for Li batteries.

Also, properly tracking discharge is highly important as well.
MTP
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FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

Outback has an application note "how to set up simpliphi batteries using outback chargers. I will try sticking close to that. Lion doesn't have that detailed setup YET
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by raysun »

MTP wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:36 am Outback has an application note "how to set up simpliphi batteries using outback chargers. I will try sticking close to that. Lion doesn't have that detailed setup YET
Yes, that will be the most helpful guidance.

The short Absorb cycle profile probably fits best:
Absorb Voltage: 14.6V (x 2 in series) = 29.2V
Absorb Time: 0.1H

Double-check with the manufacturer for specific voltages needed by the two chargers:
Absorb
Float
Re-bulk
Re-Float

Safety disconnect voltages (for the inverter)
Low Battery Cutoff
High Battery Cutoff
MTP
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 am
My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

This is what lion sent back.
We will have to work with our marketing team to get something drawn up. In the meantime, charge each to 100% and then set the bulk, float and absorption to 27.8 volts to charge both batteries.
raysun
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Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by raysun »

MTP wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:29 pm This is what lion sent back.
We will have to work with our marketing team to get something drawn up. In the meantime, charge each to 100% and then set the bulk, float and absorption to 27.8 volts to charge both batteries.
That seems a bit different.

FYI:
There is no Bulk setting on Outback chargers. They will charge in Bulk until the Absorb Voltage (27.8V) is reached.

Absorb Time isn't specified. To be safe, assume 27.8V represents a full charge and set Absorb Time to 0.1 Hours.

Float Voltage at 27.8V will hold the battery at full charge.

Set the Float Time on the inverter charger to 0.0 Hours.

Do you have a backup generator connected to the system?
MTP
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My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

Yes a honda 7000. Not on AGS i just watch soc & start manually when needed. Usually hour or so at dinner time or when running big loads like vacuum or power tools.
MTP
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 am
My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

I just replaced old batteries with new. The reading on the actual battery show 60% or more but the mate & fndc shows 100%. I unplugged cable to fndc for a few minutes & no change. I followed the simpliphi suggested settings.
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Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

MTP wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:14 am I just replaced old batteries with new. The reading on the actual battery show 60% or more but the mate & fndc shows 100%. I unplugged cable to fndc for a few minutes & no change. I followed the simpliphi suggested settings.
You need to charge the batteries first to 100% and then plug the FNDC.

When you unplug and plug the FNDC will always reset to 100%
MTP
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My RE system: Flexpower ONE
FX2524T, Mate 2, FM80 Controller, Hub 4, RTS, FLEXnet-DC

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by MTP »

That did the trick for SOC. Seems my previous problem was a battery issue. The new batteries are working fine the 1st weekend.
raysun
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Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FX2524T & Lithium Batteries Problem

Post by raysun »

Good to hear the new battery is performing as expected.

As you've discovered, the FNDC, when reset by unplugging and plugging back in, "wakes up" and sets SoC to 100%. It has no way of knowing the actual battery SoC, so assumes 100%. It's up to the operator to reset the FNDC when the battery is at 100% SoC.

Alternately, if the FNDC is reset when the battery is < 100% SoC, the display (and internal registers) will be in error until such time as the battery is fully charged, at which point the FNDC naturally syncs with the battery. This automatic sync happens each time the battery is fully charged.
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