1 of 8 RE16-B

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JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

12:30PM; I'm still at 54.1 with the batteries charging. 0.3 solar and 1.7 gen. My gosh these batteries are like a big guy at an all-you-can-eat buffet. If that human guy could do 98% efficiency I would start a new business and hire him in a moment. Of course, one can't do that now.
raysun
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:53 am 10:30 swapped cables

10:52 Starting voltage from the PHIs was 52.7. Before the generator I was getting 1kw of solar.

10:53 Generator on. 20aac 1kw solar

11:00 batteries reached 54 vdc. There they stay. I did a hand touch.. No warmth.

11:02 Bunches of solar. Generator backs off.

11:30 Changed from 14 aac to the full 20 aac.

At 11:45 the batteries are pulling 1.7 kWh charge and still at 54.2 vdc. I've never seen the solar and inverter (with gen) cooperate like this before.

11:50 hours and at 54.3. Solar a 1.6 kw and 2.0 generator.

12:50 hours and 54.3. Solar was .4 in; Gen was 2.0 in; inside we are drawing .3 out which is average.

Yup, it's going to be a long charge cycle.
6 hours I'd guess. It stays at 54.x seemingly forever.
JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:58 pm
JRHill wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:53 am 10:30 swapped cables

10:52 Starting voltage from the PHIs was 52.7. Before the generator I was getting 1kw of solar.

10:53 Generator on. 20aac 1kw solar

11:00 batteries reached 54 vdc. There they stay. I did a hand touch.. No warmth.

11:02 Bunches of solar. Generator backs off.

11:30 Changed from 14 aac to the full 20 aac.

At 11:45 the batteries are pulling 1.7 kWh charge and still at 54.2 vdc. I've never seen the solar and inverter (with gen) cooperate like this before.

11:50 hours and at 54.3. Solar a 1.6 kw and 2.0 generator.

12:50 hours and 54.3. Solar was .4 in; Gen was 2.0 in; inside we are drawing .3 out which is average.

Yup, it's going to be a long charge cycle.
6 hours I'd guess. It stays at 54.x seemingly forever.
Yup. Still there: 54.6 at 01:37. I did cheat since I had some solar to start out positive before clicking the inverter on - it was always a net positive by a bunch. So nothing took the batteries negative and my max draw is about .3 on average and the genset has been on the whole time. Whoa. 98% return huh? Lots and lots of kW going into those boxes. But nothing brew up. I had enough self confidence that I didn't bring the fire extinguisher with me. The wife went into town. She didn't want to be around.
JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

JRHill wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:45 pm
raysun wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:58 pm 10:30 swapped cables

10:52 Starting voltage from the PHIs was 52.7. Before the generator I was getting 1kw of solar.

10:53 Generator on. 20aac 1kw solar

11:00 batteries reached 54 vdc. There they stay. I did a hand touch.. No warmth.

11:02 Bunches of solar. Generator backs off.

11:30 Changed from 14 aac to the full 20 aac.

At 11:45 the batteries are pulling 1.7 kWh charge and still at 54.2 vdc. I've never seen the solar and inverter (with gen) cooperate like this before.

11:50 hours and at 54.3. Solar a 1.6 kw and 2.0 generator.

12:50 hours and 54.3. Solar was .4 in; Gen was 2.0 in; inside we are drawing .3 out which is average.

Yup, it's going to be a long charge cycle.
6 hours I'd guess. It stays at 54.x seemingly forever.
Yup. Still there: 54.6 at 01:37. I did cheat since I had some solar to start out positive before clicking the inverter on - it was always a net positive by a bunch. So nothing took the batteries negative and my max draw is about .3 on average and the genset has been on the whole time. Whoa. 98% return huh? Lots and lots of kW going into those boxes. But nothing brew up. I had enough self confidence that I didn't bring the fire extinguisher with me. The wife went into town. She didn't want to be around.

BTW, there is no perceptible heat from the PHIs.
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:53 pm
JRHill wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:45 pm
raysun wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:58 pm 10:30 swapped cables

10:52 Starting voltage from the PHIs was 52.7. Before the generator I was getting 1kw of solar.

10:53 Generator on. 20aac 1kw solar

11:00 batteries reached 54 vdc. There they stay. I did a hand touch.. No warmth.

11:02 Bunches of solar. Generator backs off.

11:30 Changed from 14 aac to the full 20 aac.

At 11:45 the batteries are pulling 1.7 kWh charge and still at 54.2 vdc. I've never seen the solar and inverter (with gen) cooperate like this before.

11:50 hours and at 54.3. Solar a 1.6 kw and 2.0 generator.

12:50 hours and 54.3. Solar was .4 in; Gen was 2.0 in; inside we are drawing .3 out which is average.

Yup, it's going to be a long charge cycle.
6 hours I'd guess. It stays at 54.x seemingly forever.
Yup. Still there: 54.6 at 01:37. I did cheat since I had some solar to start out positive before clicking the inverter on - it was always a net positive by a bunch. So nothing took the batteries negative and my max draw is about .3 on average and the genset has been on the whole time. Whoa. 98% return huh? Lots and lots of kW going into those boxes. But nothing brew up. I had enough self confidence that I didn't bring the fire extinguisher with me. The wife went into town. She didn't want to be around.

BTW, there is no perceptible heat from the PHIs.
🤣🤣

Now you know why I did my commissioning overnight.

After working with FLA boat anchors, these Phis are almost anti-climactic when it comes to charging. Fill 'em up and go.

This was my Bible while I was praying for fulfullment: https://www.powerstream.com/lithium-pho ... oltage.htm

(BTW 54.6 is in the 99% range, and that last 1% is a real tease.)
sodamo
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by sodamo »

Pulled the OpticsRE report and mine have never gone above 54.6v. FM80.
Curious what is the top V you guys aim for.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
raysun
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Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:43 pm Pulled the OpticsRE report and mine have never gone above 54.6v. FM80.
Curious what is the top V you guys aim for.
I have "absorb" set for 56.4V@0.1H

54.6V is in that 99% plateau that goes on until 56V, it seems. Probably a kinder, gentler charging target.

I may go into 56.4V at a charging current of 35A (for 6 blocks), and within the 6 minute window fall through to 0A. Seems a bit "hot" to me, so I have Charged Return Amps = 15A, and it terminates charge at 2 minutes. The biggest benefit to this profile is I'm sure the FNDC is synched to 100%.
Screenshot_20201125-211215_Chrome.jpg
The rise to 56.4V is often so precipitous that Optics misses it.
JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

Couldn't sleep. "Ohhh my aching back!" and awaiting the pill to kick in. So I came downstairs to so how things were going. Hmph - the batteries have been at 53 +/- 0.1 since 5pm yesterday. It's 3AM now. I don't think I'll be hearing the generator tonight, that's for sure. So I changed the charging parameters on the inverter and CC.

I like that 54.6 range with the inverter being 0.2 less and the CC 0.2 more. I have the AGS 2 minute voltage start set at 50.8 for now. I'm not sure why I picked that setting - its just a starting point. Its the time of year when the sun is dropping behind the trees at the top of the canyon and it gets worse and worse to the winter solstice and then improves over the six weeks afterward. T'is the season when the clouds are actually my friends as I get more solar charge than on a clear day. What I am shooting for is to not have the generator fire off in the morning. It matters not if the panels are covered with snow anyway.

I'm liking what I see with only the commissioning charge under my belt. Add to that not having to check water or SGs and I'm liking it even more. I have enough distilled water stored up to service equipment batteries for more years than I'll be around. Who knows? Maybe there'll be a run on distilled water and I can make some $$ from my stash?

Lastly, I want to thank y'all for motivating me in this direction. The sore back is just my fault for not having a walk in entrance to the crawl space. Who'd've known?
raysun
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Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

53V is 3.31V per cell (in a 16-S cell battery). 3.3VPC is the lithium "twilight zone", about 30% SoC at the low end and 95%+ at the top end. Of course, the voltage values shift under load. SimpliPhi recommends tracking voltage to determine SoC, but only publishes limited Voltage/SoC tables. The C2 table is pretty useless, who discharges their battery in 2 hours? I find the FNDC to be reasonably accurate, as long as it is synched periodically. My setup hits 100% about 3AH before the battery reaches full voltage/charge. Not bad for government work, though I would like Peukert's Constant to be adjustable.

I'd think if the battery hits the mid 54V range under generator charging, all is good.
Screenshot_20201126-081258_Chrome.jpg
My FNDC reads 0.3V high.
sodamo
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Hub 10.3
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by sodamo »

Congrats Jim. I think you are really going to enjoy them. Sorry your back took a hit, but understand. Take a few days off to let it recover.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
raysun
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

"I have the AGS 2 minute voltage start set at 50.8 for now."

I don't know much about AGS, but 50.8V seems pretty "close to the bone" for low discharge rates, it may be an SoC << 10%. I might suggest keeping an eye on the system metrics between 52.4 - 50.8.
sodamo
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Posts: 1011
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My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by sodamo »

I think 50.8 maybe be on very safe side.
Attachments
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David
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raysun
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:29 pm I think 50.8 maybe be on very safe side.
That's good, then!

This is at the C/2 discharge rate, correct?

I've noticed the discharge voltage declines relatively slowly through most all the discharge curve. Also, that discharge voltage indexes to the discharge rate.

Screenshot_20201126-192234_Office.jpg
SimpliPhi Voltage v.s. State of Charge

I would think that, for example, at a C/20 rate of discharge, 50.8V would not indicate the same state of charge as 50.8V would indicate at C/2.
sodamo
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Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by sodamo »

Yes, would be interesting to see C20 curve although I’d guess it would be longer/flatter?
David
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raysun
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

sodamo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:56 am Yes, would be interesting to see C20 curve although I’d guess it would be longer/flatter?
It looks like there's a point of convergence where all the discharge rates would seem to fall off a cliff. Before then, C/20 would certainly be longer by some amount at the "knee".

Before then, a common voltage measurement (like 50.8V) looks like it would represent a very low SoC at C/20.
JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

All is done and mostly cleaned up. I didn't get the in-line fuse from the battery sense to the FNDC installed so will get that in this PM. I didn't get the FNDC reset after the commissioning charge so it is wonky anyway so a good reset time. But it always has been wonky (wink). I'm not doing the tape on the SOC lights - I think I regained some trust from the DW. And this is a big accomplishment.
JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

sodamo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:56 am Yes, would be interesting to see C20 curve although I’d guess it would be longer/flatter?
We use very little power. Actually I believe I would have better results from FLAs if I hit them harder. In can be done but out was always a PITB.
raysun
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by raysun »

JRHill wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm
sodamo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:56 am Yes, would be interesting to see C20 curve although I’d guess it would be longer/flatter?
We use very little power. Actually I believe I would have better results from FLAs if I hit them harder. In can be done but out was always a PITB.
And the lithiums don't care a fig about low discharge rates, as there is no chemical reaction occurring.

What's at issue is determining SoC at low discharge rates.
JRHill
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Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by JRHill »

raysun wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:48 pm
JRHill wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm
sodamo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:56 am Yes, would be interesting to see C20 curve although I’d guess it would be longer/flatter?
We use very little power. Actually I believe I would have better results from FLAs if I hit them harder. In can be done but out was always a PITB.
And the lithiums don't care a fig about low discharge rates, as there is no chemical reaction occurring.

What's at issue is determining SoC at low discharge rates.
And now that's a non issue.
sodamo
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Posts: 1011
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: 1 of 8 RE16-B

Post by sodamo »

Having lived off grid 15 years, low discharge rate is pretty much how we live.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com
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