Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Discussion about OutBack Inverters in Grid Tie Applications

Moderators: OutBack, OutBack Moderator Team

User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Yesterday I shut off the grid supply to cycle my battery overnight. This morning at 1055am, 76% SOC and 1.235 SG, I reconnected the grid and my system went into bulk normally. According to event history it reached absorb voltage at 1206 pm, then reverted back to bulk at 1214 pm, as if it had met charge parameters and switched to sell mode (when battery charge setpoint is set to absorb voltage, forcing battery volts up against the sell setting). At this point SOC had reached 88%.

On the Mate inverter status screen, it shows SellRE but they're not selling (see screenshot & photo below). Instead the FMs, in bulk mode, are pushing everything into the battery while the battery seems stuck at the sell voltage. Meanwhile the FNDC says it's been 2 days since charge parameters have been met, so the inverters should never have even tried to start selling. The device map shows the inverters in pass-thru mode so the grid is feeding my loads.

SOC is gradually rising (at this point - 1322 - it's at 90%). I could probably wait a day and all will resolve itself, but in the meantime, anybody have any idea what's going on?
Screenshot_20210913-125623_Samsung Internet.jpg
20210913_125820.jpg
Screenshot_20210913-132224_Samsung Internet.jpg
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

That's a vexing puzzler to be sure. Of course, here "Off Grid" = "No clue".

I've always puzzled over the complexities of inverter charging. Is this somehow the continuation of a prior partial charge that the inverter is trying to complete with the added factor of Selling layered on?

What would happen if the Start Bulk command was issued manually?
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

raysun wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:13 am That's a vexing puzzler to be sure. Of course, here "Off Grid" = "No clue".

I've always puzzled over the complexities of inverter charging. Is this somehow the continuation of a prior partial charge that the inverter is trying to complete with the added factor of Selling layered on?

What would happen if the Start Bulk command was issued manually?
That worked - I'd tried from the FM screen earlier, no dice, but from Optics System Tools, worked! Thanks!
Screenshot_20210913-144126_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20210913-144448_Samsung Internet.jpg
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

When I read through the inverter charger partial-charge restart documentation and its explained in multiple multi-day scenarios, my head hurts. My KISS takeaway is: Start Bulk each time.

😆
fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 875
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed.

I install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems in my area and consult on solar system design/operation.
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by fcwlp »

Mike, do you have "Auto Grid Tie Control" enabled on the Mate3s "Global Charge" tab? If so disable.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

fcwlp wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:01 pm Mike, do you have "Auto Grid Tie Control" enabled on the Mate3s "Global Charge" tab? If so disable.
Yes. I'll try disabling, but never had an issue before - but I seldom cycle my battery either.

Edit: But the Mate3s manual describes this function thus: "Enable Auto Grid-Tie Control — if grid-interactive inverters are present on the system, this control allows their grid-interactivefunction to be turned off at midnight each night. This function allows the charge controllers to complete a charge cycle at thebeginning of the next day before the system begins selling. It prevents the batteries from remaining at or below the Sell voltage forextended periods without receiving a full charge.If grid-interactive inverters are not present, this item is inoperative. Options are N (no) or Y (yes). When Y is selected, "grid-tie"mode will be enabled on grid-interactive inverters anytime the battery monitor signals that charge parameters have been met"

I like having my battery meet charge parameters every day before starting to sell, and don't want my battery to go for prolonged periods without reaching CPM.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

@fcwlp: I disabled Auto Grid-tie control yesterday and today my system went into bulk, then absorb, then charge parameters were met at 11:45. Inverters went into pass-thru mode and one of the FM80s is silent, the other is in float. No selling,even though on the Mate inverter screen the arrow is pointing to SellRE as the current state.
Screenshot_20210914-125334_Samsung Internet.jpg
20210914_130256.jpg
I enabled Grid-tie control to see if it would start selling but no luck.

Can't remember having this much trouble getting my system to sell before. Hoping that changing back to Grid-tie control enabled will take effect overnight tonight and back to normal operation tomorrow, unless someone has an idea on how to make it happen sooner.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

Out of curiosity and to see if the issue can be isolated in an unanticipated source, what happens if you manually START BULK charging right now?
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Went into absorb right away (battery already at 100% SOC). Waiting to see what happens when absorb stops.
Screenshot_20210914-155224_Samsung Internet.jpg
Will update, but cloudy right now.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Incidental question: Mate shows about 45 minutes remaining absorb time, but battery charging amps are down to 11 or so. FNDC end amps is set for 35A. Why doesn't absorb stop? Battery charging is way below the end amps setpoint...
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

Screenshot_20210914-110959_DuckDuckGo.jpg
Is Auto Charge Termination Control enabled?
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

raysun wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:10 pmIs Auto Charge Termination Control enabled?
No. Don't tell me - that's what would've terminated charging properly?
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

Mike Curran wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:07 pm
raysun wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:10 pmIs Auto Charge Termination Control enabled?
No. Don't tell me - that's what would've terminated charging properly?
OK, I won't tell you.

Seriously, when the FNDC Charged Parameters Met values (Voltage, Time, Return Amps) are satisfied, the Mate Auto Charge Termination Control will end Absorb immediately, overriding any remaining Absorb Time.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Okay, changing it for tomorrow. Since it's different from how my system has operated for years now, if it doesn't work...as left:
Screenshot_20210914-200337_Samsung Internet.jpg
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

That big Rolls battery was probably fine with a long Absorb Time even though it likely wasn't needed. Using the target ending amps will probably result in two changes, a shorter actual Absorb phase, and less periodic water replacement.

I'd expect the system would get to selling sooner (if completing Absorb is the trigger.)

A potential tradeoff is the long Absorb cycles may have been acting as mini-EQ. A check at the end of 30 days will show if the SG has stayed as in the past.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

raysun wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:09 pm That big Rolls battery was probably fine with a long Absorb Time even though it likely wasn't needed. Using the target ending amps will probably result in two changes, a shorter actual Absorb phase, and less periodic water replacement.
Funny, I've been operating for years (GVFX until late 2020) with charge termination control disabled, and the daily absorb cycle seemed to be using the short (10 minutes or less - I was always fiddling with it) absorb time set on the FNDC. My charge controllers and inverters always had absorb set for 1 hour or more, but when I had the GVFXs the system never (daily cycles) took anywhere near an hour to meet charge parameters. Only time absorb went for an hour was after a grid outage. Current behavior makes me wonder if the VFXRs "follow the rules" more closely than the GVFXs did.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

My charge controllers and inverters always had absorb set for 1 hour or more, but when I had the GVFXs the system never (daily cycles) took anywhere near an hour to meet charge parameters. Only time absorb went for an hour was after a grid outage.
What was the Rebulk Voltage setting?
If the battery was always at a fairly high state of charge and lightly loaded, Rebulk may have been subtracting a goodly amount from the Absorb Time.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Rebulk on the GVFXs is fixed at 25.0V. My system never went below 25.2V overnight, nor did it ever hit rebulk during the day.

Current rebulk on VFXRs is set for 24.0V.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

Mike Curran wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:36 am Rebulk on the GVFXs is fixed at 25.0V. My system never went below 25.2V overnight, nor did it ever hit rebulk during the day.

Current rebulk on VFXRs is set for 24.0V.
After completing a charge cycle, Rebulk will subtract 1 minute from Absorb Time for every minute the battery is above the Rebulk voltage. It adds 1 munute to Absorb Time for every minute the battery is below Rebulk voltage.

I found Rebulk to be unnecessarily complex for charging my VRLA battery, and relied on Automatic Charge Termination / Charged Return Amps instead. I set Rebulk Voltage fairly high so that it didn't mess with Absorb Time.

With my Phi battery, Rebulk Voltage is again set low (per Phi specs) at 50.8V. My battery never gets close to that. The charge profile has Absorb Time of 0.1H (the minimum) and that doesn't appear to be affected.

However, when I start the generator to use the inverter chargers, I seem to need to START BULK manually in order to get them running. I blame that on Rebulk. I should play with Rebulk Voltage a bit more to see if it is indeed the case.

Its interesting in neither case is your battery going below the Rebulk Voltage. I'd think that would cause Absorb Time to be minimal.

*EDIT*
Apparently, I had been experimenting with Rebulk Voltage, as my charge controllers were set to 51.2 for some reason (also a voltage my battery never reaches.) I will try playing with the Inverters' Rebulk Voltage to see if it triggers an non-manual Bulk cycle when the generator is started.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

After completing a charge cycle, Rebulk will subtract 1 minute from Absorb Time for every minute the battery is above the Rebulk voltage. It adds 1 munute to Absorb Time for every minute the battery is below Rebulk voltage.
So if I set rebulk too low (e.g., after an overnight outage my battery ends up around 24.6V; rebulk is 24.0 now), then after a long grid outage when my battery never reaches rebulk, absorb may be terminated too soon? I don't recall reading that anywhere - where did you see it?
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

Screenshot_20210915-085405_DuckDuckGo.jpg
A passing reference to it. I had a detailed discussion on the subject in my PM, but have since lost it.

Not too long ago,I stumbled across a brief reference in one of the user manuals but failed to make note of it.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Well, it's been cloudy today so took a good long while to meet charge parameters, but finally did at 1447. Unfortunately system subsequently went into pass thru mode (loads fed from grid thru inverters and both charge controllers in float, as shown below.) Note I tried forcing a bulk charge and PV power went up to 480W so there is enough power to at least offset my loads. But still not selling, and CCs aren't going into bulk as they should following CPM. Going to go back to disabling auto charge termination control, which is how my system used to work, meaning sell to grid after CPM. As left:
Screenshot_20210915-152502_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20210915-151955_Samsung Internet.jpg
Will update tomorrow as these changes don't seem to affect anything until the next day.
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Update: Back to normal, selling to grid following CPM. Note I changed the FNDC absorb time to 10 minutes, all other devices are set for 1 hour, which is probably too short if I have an extended grid outage. Anyway, from event history it appears the system used the FNDC absorb time - absorb started at 1034, CPM @ 1044.
Screenshot_20210916-105937_Samsung Internet.jpg
Next time I cycle my battery I'll have to pay closer attention to how charging behaves after grid is reconnected.
Screenshot_20210916-110443_Samsung Internet.jpg
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 5615
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by raysun »

Anyway, from event history it appears the system used the FNDC absorb time - absorb started at 1034, CPM @ 1044.
This grid stuff makes my head hurt.

I'd think Charged Parameters Met flag would be set whenever Charged Voltage, Charged Time, and Charged Return Amps are reached.

However, with Automatic Charge Termination Control off, there would be no corresponding command to stop charging sent to the chargers by the Mate. The chargers should stay in the Absorb phase until their Absorb Time is complete.

Just before the CPM entry, the event log shows charging going from Absorb to Bulk, that's typically because the chargers can't hold the Absorb voltage. Is that the case here?

20210916_072152.jpg
My charge termination events from yesterday. Note the Absorb phase termination at the 5 minute mark (Absorb Time = 0.1H), followed by the CPM flag set a moment later.

Screenshot_20210916-072910_DuckDuckGo.jpg
A 2nd example where the Absorb phase terminated in 1 minute.
User avatar
Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied VFXR3524A-01's series stacked, replaced GVFX's (2020)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS. Tigo ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 microinverters

Battery systems operate in grid-tied, battery backup mode
All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Not selling, & inverter status says "SellRE"

Post by Mike Curran »

Just before the CPM entry, the event log shows charging going from Absorb to Bulk, that's typically because the chargers can't hold the Absorb voltage. Is that the case here?
No. The shift to bulk occurs as a result of the charge controllers being in grid tied mode. When CPs are met, the inverters are allowed to sell to grid, while the charge controllers effectively are trying to maintain Absorb voltage. But they can't, because the sell voltage setpoint is lower than Absorb (typically it's set at the desired float level). So they appear in bulk. This app note explains it better than I can: https://outbackpower.com/downloads/docu ... p_note.pdf
Note the Absorb phase termination at the 5 minute mark (Absorb Time = 0.1H), followed by the CPM flag set a moment later.
Same sequence of events as mine, just different things happening (I shift to bulk @ absorb termination, as a result of selling to grid). These things are probably happening simultaneously.
A 2nd example where the Absorb phase terminated in 1 minute.
Is that because end amps were reached before the 5 minute Absorb time?
https://smart.tigoenergy.com/p/pZXn7SZQyO45?date=2021-04-19
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221
Post Reply