stacking instructions posted

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arnold
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stacking instructions posted

Post by arnold »

In the manual sections of the Outback web site I just found:

http://www.outbackpower.com/Stacking%20FX2000%20Inverters%20REV%204.pdf

stacking instructions!

arnold
Christopher

stacking instructions posted

Post by Christopher »

YEP - here they are. Its actually very simple - there is only really two settings required on each inverter as follows:

STACK PHASE: Determines if the inverter is the MASTER or a SLAVE - and if a slave, which type it is.

The slaves can either be a "CLASSIC" slave (like the SW series - an independant inverter operating 180 degrees out from the master) or a L1 slave (in parallel with the master) or a L2 slave (in series - 180 degrees out of phase from the master). Multiple L1 or L2 slaves are allowed as required up to a maximum of four (using the STACK-4 option) and eventually a total of ten (using the HUB-10).

The second adjustment determines the operation of the power saving system in the inverters. The MASTER inverter is able to turn off the SLAVEs when operating at low load levels.

The POWER SAVE LEVEL (MASTER ONLY) setting determines the minimum number of slaves which will stay on all the time. The default is 0 (zero) which allows all of the slaves to be turned off. This setting needs to be set only on the master inverter - it is ignored on any slave inverters.

The POWER SAVE LEVEL (SLAVE ONLY) setting determines the order in which the slaves are turned on and off as the AC load increases and decreases. A slave with a POWER SAVE LEVEL (SLAVE ONLY) or 1 is the first to turn on when the load increases and the last to turn off the the AC loads decrease. This setting needs to be set only on the slave inverters - it is ignored by the master inverter.

Use of the L2 slave setting requires that the X-240 auotransformer be included in the system on the AC output side of the inverters. This transformer "balances" the AC loads between the two 120 VAC legs and also keeps the second leg (L2) powered when the master has told all of the
slaves to turn off under low AC load conditions.

Thats it for single and split phase applications. The three phase instruction should be avaialble soon as well.
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stacking instructions posted

Post by ericwahl »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Christopher Freitas:
<strong>YEP - here they are. Its actually very simple - there is only really two settings required on each inverter as follows:

STACK PHASE: Determines if the inverter is the MASTER or a SLAVE - and if a slave, which type it is.

The slaves can either be a "CLASSIC" slave (like the SW series - an independant inverter operating 180 degrees out from the master) or a L1 slave (in parallel with the master) or a L2 slave (in series - 180 degrees out of phase from the master). Multiple L1 or L2 slaves are allowed as required up to a maximum of four (using the STACK-4 option) and eventually a total of ten (using the HUB-10).

The second adjustment determines the operation of the power saving system in the inverters. The MASTER inverter is able to turn off the SLAVEs when operating at low load levels.

The POWER SAVE LEVEL (MASTER ONLY) setting determines the minimum number of slaves which will stay on all the time. The default is 0 (zero) which allows all of the slaves to be turned off. This setting needs to be set only on the master inverter - it is ignored on any slave inverters.

The POWER SAVE LEVEL (SLAVE ONLY) setting determines the order in which the slaves are turned on and off as the AC load increases and decreases. A slave with a POWER SAVE LEVEL (SLAVE ONLY) or 1 is the first to turn on when the load increases and the last to turn off the the AC loads decrease. This setting needs to be set only on the slave inverters - it is ignored by the master inverter.

Use of the L2 slave setting requires that the X-240 auotransformer be included in the system on the AC output side of the inverters. This transformer "balances" the AC loads between the two 120 VAC legs and also keeps the second leg (L2) powered when the master has told all of the
slaves to turn off under low AC load conditions.

Thats it for single and split phase applications. The three phase instruction should be avaialble soon as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK this document is still there although it appears the link to it from the main site is gone. It seems the manual is saying something contradictory.
The document linked to here says the classic slave mode w/ 2 inverters can operate 120 and 240 loads, w/ loads limited to 2kW/leg. The manual says I can NOT run a mixture of 120 and 240 w/o the X-240, or else I need 240 loads which are "brownout-tolerant".
I understand there are benefits to the transformer. But
a. it has a standby power use
b. it costs money

could you elaborate on the options for a stacked system with a single 240V load, plus normal 120V loads? So you're saying without the X-240 I could damage the well pump? would this depend on the sleep mode settings? or would it depend on other loads possibly overloading and shutting down one inverter? ie are there conditions where it will work without the transformer? ie let's say user can manually say OK my batteries are full I'm going to fill up my cistern now and not run any other big loads ?

Thanks
Eric
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stacking instructions posted

Post by wd8cdh »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eric W.:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Christopher Freitas:
<strong>Use of the L2 slave setting requires that the X-240 auotransformer be included in the system on the AC output side of the inverters. This transformer "balances" the AC loads between the two 120 VAC legs and also keeps the second leg (L2) powered when the master has told all of the
slaves to turn off under low AC load conditions.
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">could you elaborate on the options for a stacked system with a single 240V load, plus normal 120V loads? So you're saying without the X-240 I could damage the well pump? would this depend on the sleep mode settings? or would it depend on other loads possibly overloading and shutting down one inverter? ie are there conditions where it will work without the transformer? ie let's say user can manually say OK my batteries are full I'm going to fill up my cistern now and not run any other big loads ?

Thanks
Eric</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Eric,

I think what Christopher is saying is you must have the x-240 transformer to run 240V loads when the load is low enough for all of the inverters to be turned off except for the single master. All other times you don't need the transformer if your combined 240 and 120V loads do not exceed the ratings on any leg.
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stacking instructions posted

Post by ericwahl »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eric W.:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Christopher Freitas:
<strong>Use of the L2 slave setting requires that the X-240 auotransformer be included in the system on the AC output side of the inverters. This transformer "balances" the AC loads between the two 120 VAC legs and also keeps the second leg (L2) powered when the master has told all of the
slaves to turn off under low AC load conditions.
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">could you elaborate on the options for a stacked system with a single 240V load, plus normal 120V loads? So you're saying without the X-240 I could damage the well pump? would this depend on the sleep mode settings? or would it depend on other loads possibly overloading and shutting down one inverter? ie are there conditions where it will work without the transformer? ie let's say user can manually say OK my batteries are full I'm going to fill up my cistern now and not run any other big loads ?

Thanks
Eric</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Eric,

I think what Christopher is saying is you must have the x-240 transformer to run 240V loads when the load is low enough for all of the inverters to be turned off except for the single master. All other times you don't need the transformer if your combined 240 and 120V loads do not exceed the ratings on any leg.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Right - I should have been more specific in that I am interested in classic mode. L2 mode clearly requires X-240. I was more referring to the linked document and the manual than to Christopher's post - sorry.

Eric
Christopher

stacking instructions posted

Post by Christopher »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eric W.:
<strong>Right - I should have been more specific in that I am interested in classic mode. L2 mode clearly requires X-240. I was more referring to the linked document and the manual than to Christopher's post - sorry.

Eric</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK - looks like we're all clear on this now. 2 inverter systems can be stacked in either 120 VAC parallel, 120/240 VAC series (classic style) or 120/240 series with the x-240 (OutBack style). Stacking four inverters for 120/240 vac requires the X-240 and can only be done with the OutBack stacking method. Stacking FXs in parallel never requires the X-240.

Since the power consumption of the X-240 is lower than the idle power draw of a single FX, using the OutBack stacking method with the X-240 actually draws less power at low loads than the Classic method with both inverters ON. This is because we turn off the slave inverters when the AC loads levels are low.

The classic stacking method will not shut down the other inverter when one is turned off or is in an error mode - the inverters operate independantly of each other (chargers are co-ordinated though). This will be a problem with some 240 VAC loads - especially when the loads are mixed with 120 VAC loads as well.

So - use classic for the lowest cost system where you do NOT have any 240 VAC loads - or - when the loads are only 240 VAC (such as a system to power just a pump).

Use OutBack Stacking with the X-240 autoformer for general applications which power 120 and 240 vac loads mixed together. This will be most of the applications I suspect. With the OutBack stacking method the master will shut down the system if one of the slaves shutdown only if the master (and any other slaves available) cannot power the load conencted.
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stacking instructions posted

Post by ericwahl »

Thanks for the clarification. I guess *most* 240v loads would not be damaged by one inverter shutting down when in classic mode? The load just wouldn't run, generally?
I mean this is a possibility whether 120v loads are present or not. But I guess it's not a big risk of damaging a typical pump for example.

Eric

<small>[ March 28, 2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Eric W. ]</small>
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stacking instructions posted

Post by wd8cdh »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eric W.:
<strong>Thanks for the clarification. I guess *most* 240v loads would not be damaged by one inverter shutting down when in classic mode? The load just wouldn't run, generally?
I mean this is a possibility whether 120v loads are present or not. But I guess it's not a big risk of damaging a typical pump for example.

Eric</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Eric,

In the "Classic" mode, one of the inverters wouldn't shut down on it's own anyway. Only manually or due to a fault. With both 120 and 240 loads, with one inverter off, the 240 loads will get backfead thru the 120V loads on the shut off inverter so they should be shut off to prevent damage.

Christopher,

Does the X-240 draw 12 WATTS unloaded or 12 VA?

I have a balancing transformer that draws 18VA unloaded but only 3 actual WATTS.

Ron
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stacking instructions posted

Post by ericwahl »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
Hi Eric,

In the "Classic" mode, one of the inverters wouldn't shut down on it's own anyway. Only manually or due to a fault. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Ron,
This is almost certain to happen *eventually*, and should be considered imo.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With both 120 and 240 loads, with one inverter off, the 240 loads will get backfead thru the 120V loads on the shut off inverter so they should be shut off to prevent damage.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah .. current will flow through a 240v motor from the live leg to the dead leg. Of course. That makes sense - Thanks! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

edit: I have installed an X-240 and it seems to work very well indeed. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Eric W. ]</small>
wd8cdh
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stacking instructions posted

Post by wd8cdh »

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Marty Spence:
<strong> How large is the one you are measuring at 3 watts? Seems very low - it probably is not that large? Most off-the-shelf 1:1 ratio transformers have very high idle draw - I've seen over 40 watts from some.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Marty,

It's a surplus 3KVA toroid unit. I'll try to see who makes it. It runs stone cold with no load.
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