WTF(XR-A)

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raysun
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WTF(XR-A)

Post by raysun »

The latest in the workhorse FX series inverters are the FXR-A. (VFXR-A included as well, of course.) These units bring a good deal of advancements - grid interactivity on par with the Radian series, advanced charging to accommodate lithium batteries being the most notable.

It appears, from posts on this forum and personal experience, they also bring some operational behaviors that are somewhat perplexing, and for many who upgraded from older FX inverters, did not exist prior.

I invite anyone who has experienced anomalous or unexpected behavior with FXR-A/FXR-A01 inverters to describe the behavior here.

PLEASE, focus the posts on functions related to the inverter, and supply examples of the behavior as data captures from OpticsRE/Mate Web App and event log entries. Be sure to include relevant configuration details. Editorial comments and gripes will only serve to add "mud" to the picture, lets keep it clean. We'd like information that Outback might be induced to consume and possibly act on.

IF YOUR PROFILE IS NOT COMPLETE AND UP TO DATE, PLEASE DO NOT POST. Uncorrellated data is useless, don't waste anyone's time.
JRHill
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by JRHill »

I am fully committed to this effort. Not just for me but also for the others experiencing similar and not so similar problems. If I offer any value it might be on the AGS side which seems to add some complexity.
raysun
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by raysun »

INVERTER: FXR3048A-01 (dual, parallel stacked)
ISSUE: Generator current not apportioned equally between inverters, maximum charge current not reached, slave inverter throws "AC Current Limit Exceeded" warnings.

The inverters are installed on a FlexPower Two FXR panel. As received, they were configured for series stacking with inverter on Port 1 connected to L1 AC IN and AC OUT TBBs, and inverter on Port 7 connected to L2 AC IN and AC OUT TBBs. To configure for parallel stacking, a 6GA jumper was installed between L1 and L2 AC IN TBBs, and another between L1 and L2 AC OUT TBBs.

The system is strictly off-grid.

The generator used is a Honda EU7000is switched to 120V Only, and power taken from the 120V @ 30A receptacle, or 3.6kVA.

AC Input:
General
AC Input Select Priority = Gen
Charger Operating Mode = ON (both inverters)
Charger AC Limit = 14A
Gen
Gen Input Mode = Support
Gen AC Input Limit = 15A
All other settings on this menu = Default

When the generator is connected, automatic transfer to AC Input occurs. Typical "House Loads" range from 100 - 2750W, with the median load approx. 200W.

When charging, the combined charger and house load should draw maximum amperage from the generator, and regularly does. However, the slave inverter draws 1 - 3A more than the master, causing it to throw warnings recorded in the Event Log.

At the direction of OB tech support, the roles of the inverters were reversed. The original Master was moved to Port 2, and the original Slave to Port 1. Their parallel stacking assignments were changed accordingly.

The now Master inverter continues to draw more generator current than the Slave, but does not exceed the AC input limit. The slave draws about 3A less.
JRHill
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by JRHill »

My implementation is simple: one inverter and one charge controller. All of this came up last year after the VFXR upgrade. The problem is inverter charging.

I have ZERO problem with the charge controller, when I have sunlight in the summer and it does CPM no problem & every day.
I can't reliably get CPM with the VFXR in the winter charging with the generator.

In the days of lead batteries it was expected. I could fully Absorb them with solar for free in the summer. In the winter not so much so as I limited generator time to Bulk plus a bit. In fact I didn't pay much attention to CPM in the winter in those days. Every week or so I did an extended run for a full Absorb (4 hours). It sucked to have all the generator run time for 500-600 watts charging to complete an Absorb. Now, with the Lithium, Absorb is a non issue. The generator runs full out and completes the Bulk, the .1 hour absorb functions as a generator cool down. But despite the settings I can not hit CPM. Sometimes I Rebulk and I can hit CPM. Sometimes 2x. But mostly not.

For the Lithium batteries I do NO programming based upon SOC. But for me meeting Charged Parameters Met is important because it gives me a benchmark of day to day. Not to mention the DW who sees the red light and asks if I know what I'm doing (wink). The red light on the Mate3s is taped over but she still see it.

But the bottom line is CPM, resetting the SOC.

This is important to me because it adds to the system I always wanted. And that is something that is consistent if I was not here. The lithiums have shown they are up to the task but there are problems. I don't want to go a whole winter season before the FM can straighten things out.

Grasp that: "I don't want to go a whole winter season before the FM can straighten things out." The FM works great.
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by provo »

JRHill wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:29 am Sometimes I Rebulk and I can hit CPM. Sometimes 2x. But mostly not.
So about the first absorb period that never reaches CPM -- does it get to the 6m mark and then drop to bulk, or does something make it stop charging before 6m?

If you do a Rebulk and it gets to CPM, how long does it take in the second absorb period?

If you have to do a second Rebulk, how long does it take in the third absorb period?

And the clincher -- what voltage range do you see at the battery terminals when it's absorbing?

Sorry if you've answered any or all of those questions before ....
raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
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Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by raysun »

I think we're having that discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=17058
provo
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My RE system: 16 Evergreen EC-120 (4 strings, total 1920W)
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Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC
Honda EU3000is generator
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by provo »

OK, sorry ...
JRHill
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by JRHill »

provo wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:04 pm
JRHill wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:29 am Sometimes I Rebulk and I can hit CPM. Sometimes 2x. But mostly not.
So about the first absorb period that never reaches CPM -- does it get to the 6m mark and then drop to bulk, or does something make it stop charging before 6m?

Never. It ends early. Regardless of Charge Termination.

If you do a Rebulk and it gets to CPM, how long does it take in the second absorb period?

It is like the above. It ends early. I might hit it but might not. It's not something I want to do to the batteries.

If you have to do a second Rebulk, how long does it take in the third absorb period?

Like the above, it is not consistent. I have only done a third Rebulk once or twice. That's just nuts, to me. I don't want to hit those lithiums with a sledgehammer just to hit CPM.

And the clincher -- what voltage range do you see at the battery terminals when it's absorbing?

They are straight out consistent with the bus. And the bus to the devices. To be honest I have not compared the terminals with the devices during Absorb. It would be hard to catch. But this only happens above 55.5. Since the VFXR, FM and FNDC follow so closely below 55.5, I didn't fathom above that would be any different related to terminal and connection voltages above 55.5.

Sorry if you've answered any or all of those questions before ....
Answers in line above.

Gosh I love that 5g+ tank on the EU7000is.
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by EA6LE-ONE »

just a wild idea. what if you have the absorb voltage lower to target 90% SOC and have a longer absorb time? with lithium you don't need to charge 100% to keep it healthy.

Edit: Ray, if you delete your last post i could try to delete mine and get this thread back to what should be.
Last edited by EA6LE-ONE on Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
raysun
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Posts: 7762
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A-01, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
6 SimpliPhi 3.8-48 (48v @ 75AH. 450AH total)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
REC Alpha 440W panels - 2 arrays: each of 4 strings of 2 in series
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by raysun »

OK guys, I'll give this over to general discussion.

My intent was to catalog FXR issues only, as I was hoping for a concise list we could give to OB without a lot of editing to sieve out the side conversations. It didn't happen, so carry on!

😏
JRHill
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Re: WTF(XR-A)

Post by JRHill »

EA6LE-ONE wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:44 pm just a wild idea. what if you have the absorb voltage lower to target 90% SOC and have a longer absorb time? with lithium you don't need to charge 100% to keep it healthy.
I've played with that. But its also a hard target. The PHIs full are 52.5. At 95% are 51.7 and 90% at 51.65 per their chart. I take that with a grain of salt cause I rarely get below 52.0.

I've purposely gone lower. Seriously ya have to work to get them down. And to get them back up is just generator or solar recharge time. And I still can't hit CPM doing a deep dive (on the FXR) - even to 51.x and back up. It's not the battery voltage range. It's something's else. Once again, the 'ol FM80 works great - with NO adjustments. The FXR, ah, nope.
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